Rattle noise coming from front Air Suspension (2017-18)

[Dragetreneren]

I’ll keep you updated, but fingers crossed that this fixed it for good for my part!
Has any one gotten the 77-C and after an extended period of time and driving remained rattle free?
If so I am still hopeful, but if not I fear it is just a matter of time until the “rattle gate” appears again... cause 1500 km is not really much driving..

People are prepared to look the other way, if you understand what I mean. This is what marketologists use a lot. Those of us with well developed virtue of hope are more prone to this. Ref: https://www.simplypsychology.org/Erik-Erikson.html Here is a good video about this:

This does not help - neither Tesla owners nor the venture. Add also the fact that the overall consumer base is lagely asynchronous in individuals' experiences and perception (on top of the exaggerated trust) and it varies.

The fact that this is "not a safety concern" does not help public organizations like NHTSA to take it to the status of "recall". I am not sure what is Forbrukerådet (Consumer Council) position on this in Norway. Manufacturer is then free to issue SB as the situation suggests. The situation is shaped by Consumer Reports, diverse consumer groups, (public) class action cases and otherwise by private initiatives.

Everyone is free to say what feels right provided it conforms with local legislation.

Technical cases like this are not all black and white of course, but in this particular situation, which is:
1. The issue is wide spread - in more than 14 countries.
2. It comes back (... and like yourself I really hope it will NOT).
3. Model S is a flagship product.
4. The number of vehicles that possibly are affected counts thousands (REF: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148826-9999.pdf)
5. The issue affects one of the most important vehicle systems - suspension.
... I simply cannot justify anything than a full focus on a full and permanent technical solution which I have not seen or heard of so far, unfortunately.

 

[Dan77]

Please mention the driving comfort issue (kind of wobble)! Many of us who got the struts replaced (two times on my MS march 2018) experienced a significant improvement until both rattle and wobble is coming back...

My 2018 100D developed the rattle from around 3,000 miles. Now on 10,800 miles. Booked in at the SC in a few weeks for the strut replacement. The ride has definitely deteriorated over these miles, to the extent that a) if I didn't already know, I'd be amazed if somebody told me the car was air suspended, and b), the low speed secondary ride is subjectively worse than my old 2013 Focus ST. It really has started to bob, bounce and sometimes crash over crappy British tarmac.

All that being said, and not knocking or minimising these issues, I sometimes think we're guilty of middle -class first world posturing. Yeah, it's an expensive car, so ideally we shouldn't have these issues at all. But it's a new design from a new company that didn't exist prior to 2003, and it's a company with a very clear self-proclaimed mission to draw attention to an existential threat that most humans are shamefully ignoring, and it's a company still finding its way in the world in terms of build quality and customer service.

Maybe some of us sometimes forget that.

And amazingly, Tesla still survives, despite the vast, malign, black-hearted and oil-soaked corporate forces ranged against it.

Short point...most days, I don't care about the rattle, I just turn up the music and mostly cruise and occasionally stomp the go pedal very hard when I want a laugh and I thank god the damn thing even exists.

Meanwhile, back to the rattle...

 

[Dragetreneren]

My 2018 100D developed the rattle from around 3,000 miles. Now on 10,800 miles. Booked in at the SC in a few weeks for the strut replacement. The ride has definitely deteriorated over these miles, to the extent that a) if I didn't already know, I'd be amazed if somebody told me the car was air suspended, and b), the low speed secondary ride is subjectively worse than my old 2013 Focus ST. It really has started to bob, bounce and sometimes crash over crappy British tarmac.

All that being said, and not knocking or minimising these issues, I sometimes think we're guilty of middle -class first world posturing. Yeah, it's an expensive car, so ideally we shouldn't have these issues at all. But it's a new design from a new company that didn't exist prior to 2003, and it's a company with a very clear self-proclaimed mission to draw attention to an existential threat that most humans are shamefully ignoring, and it's a company still finding its way in the world in terms of build quality and customer service.

Maybe some of us sometimes forget that.

And amazingly, Tesla still survives, despite the vast, malign, black-hearted and oil-soaked corporate forces ranged against it.

Short point...most days, I don't care about the rattle, I just turn up the music and mostly cruise and occasionally stomp the go pedal very hard when I want a laugh and I thank god the damn thing even exists.

Meanwhile, back to the rattle...

I like the topic that you brought up in your post. Just wanted to point out something that dissolves in the heat of the day.

Namely, problems can give both negative and positive spin-offs which really depends on how they are addressed. It is almost a common knowledge that Tesla is able to bite the dust and fix whatever it can. This is positive. But then sometimes, a problem "gets stuck" in the system and it takes time and effort before it assumes the "right" focus. This is due to many factors including the company's struggling while getting to the top, asynchronous individual compaints mixed with personal perception and naturally enough professional scepticism of the service centers etc. And there is understanding and empathy among customers - in various extent / depending if the customer has been pushed to the limits of what even makes sense to withstand.

With this problem we are way pass the point where Tesla has reasons to say the suspension problem(s) is(are) negligible, and it looks like it has put some efforts into setting the right course already, but:
1. Where is the final technical solution after almost 2 years?
2. Why isn't it obvious (at least not for some service centers) that the problem even exists?

If I was thinking about a positive gain in this situation I would imagine the following:
1. Tesla does all it takes to look into the problem, solve, test and TEST it AGAIN. See how VW does that here:

2. Tesla synchronizes the knowledge across the enterprise so that every service center actually performs the validation, employs the knowledge and acts proactively within the assumed mandate.

When the problem is resolved Tesla can account for a lot of positive effects. I don't even dare to speculate about how media will explode talking about it which will echo in years to come! I personally, will not hesitate and ask journalists in my circle to give it a spin. It is totaly safe to trust this.

 

[Jarvis2018]

I have the rattle but haven’t noticed any wobble in the steering. Mine feels pretty smooth, but maybe mine just isn’t noticeable yet. Will mention to see if I can get any into.

 

[Dragetreneren]

I have the rattle but haven’t noticed any wobble in the steering. Mine feels pretty smooth, but maybe mine just isn’t noticeable yet. Will mention to see if I can get any into.

There is an opinion that bushings on top of the strut assembly get destroyed. If I assume that as a valid theory then it concurs with my observations:
1. Harsh ride - because there is an uncontrolled contact point,
1.1. and Shock absorbers seem to not always game due to the deficient joint (bushing).
2. Rattling noise - parts are banging against each other.
3. The vibrations are also transmitted the steering column - feels slightly on the steering wheel.

I have not measured stopping distances, tire wear front vs rear, tire temperature, but would be interesting to hear if someone has done some measurements.

 

[BjoHof]

I like the topic that you brought up in your post. Just wanted to point out something that dissolves in the heat of the day.

Namely, problems can give both negative and positive spin-offs which really depends on how they are addressed. It is almost a common knowledge that Tesla is able to bite the dust and fix whatever it can. This is positive. But then sometimes, a problem "gets stuck" in the system and it takes time and effort before it assumes the "right" focus. This is due to many factors including the company's struggling while getting to the top, asynchronous individual compaints mixed with personal perception and naturally enough professional scepticism of the service centers etc. And there is understanding and empathy among customers - in various extent / depending if the customer has been pushed to the limits of what even makes sense to withstand.

With this problem we are way pass the point where Tesla has reasons to say the suspension problem(s) is(are) negligible, and it looks like it has put some efforts into setting the right course already, but:
1. Where is the final technical solution after almost 2 years?
2. Why isn't it obvious (at least not for some service centers) that the problem even exists?

If I was thinking about a positive gain in this situation I would imagine the following:
1. Tesla does all it takes to look into the problem, solve, test and TEST it AGAIN. See how VW does that here:

2. Tesla synchronizes the knowledge across the enterprise so that every service center actually performs the validation, employs the knowledge and acts proactively within the assumed mandate.

When the problem is resolved Tesla can account for a lot of positive effects. I don't even dare to speculate about how media will explode talking about it which will echo in years to come! I personally, will not hesitate and ask journalists in my circle to give it a spin. It is totaly safe to trust this.

Totally agree!
We want Tesla to succeed. Without Teslas efforts I would not be able to travel allover europe fossilfree plus charging dayly from my solar panels.
But we are worried that these quality and communication issues that make us unhappy might get back on them.
I met several S owners having the rattle issue, som never reported it to SC, others are satisfied with „works as designed“ after reporting it.
Now we are patiently waiting for the call „we now have a final fix“ from Tesla while many of the new service advisors and technicians never heard about it (especially the wobble). How do we let Tesla know its time to come with a sollution or at least a comment??

 

[emmz0r]

 

[Kramleets]

Had the air spring modules replaced last week (finally!) and the rattle is gone. Vastly improved driving experience now.

 

[vincentnl]

Had the air spring modules replaced last week (finally!) and the rattle is gone. Vastly improved driving experience now.

Does that also improve the rattle/squeaking sound on small speedbumps?

 

[Dragetreneren]

Had the air spring modules replaced last week (finally!) and the rattle is gone. Vastly improved driving experience now.

Do you care to share work description from the service invoice? People have had their Air Modules replaced (few times) and the problem seems to get reduced ("eliminated") at first but then comes back after a shot while.

 

[vincentnl]

Just picked my MS up from the SeC. Got an email mentioning the following:

Concern: Customer: Vehicle makes a 'oonck' noise when driving over steep speed humps.
Best heard at Ikea speed humps when driving 15/20 km/h

Pay Type: Warranty
Corrections: Exterior NVH General Diagnosis
Verified customers complaint. When driving over a small steep speed bump there is a
oonck noise present.Tested several other vehicle with the same air spring modules
and verified the same noise is present.This is a product feature on the new air springs.
​

Wow... They just don't test new air springs like the used to...

 

[jabr0u]

My last post in this thread is #659 and still have not received the 77-C replacement modules. I was finally scheduled for service on Tuesday but the appointment was cancelled the evening before as the parts did not arrive. No word on when they will. I've had the issue since about 5,000 miles and now at 11,000. I agree with Dan77 and others that ride quality has slowly deteriorated over time; this is not just a noise issue.

 

[Dragetreneren]

Just picked my MS up from the SeC. Got an email mentioning the following:

Concern: Customer: Vehicle makes a 'oonck' noise when driving over steep speed humps.
Best heard at Ikea speed humps when driving 15/20 km/h

Pay Type: Warranty
Corrections: Exterior NVH General Diagnosis
Verified customers complaint. When driving over a small steep speed bump there is a
oonck noise present.Tested several other vehicle with the same air spring modules
and verified the same noise is present.This is a product feature on the new air springs.
...​

When reports says "Product feature" it is actually a subject to a new agreement. One should not accept that against own will and rather should object firmly and explicitly.

Besides that, the "feature" is supposed to have characteristics which also have to be stable in the conditions over a defined period of time. This is on top of the requirement that it should have been announced in the original agreement or marketing material. What are those characteristics? What is the milage and timespan that they are not suppose to change?

The problem (whatever it is is still unknown to me) causes effects that also change over a short stretch of time or milage. There are several including worsening driving comfort and noise / rattle - as you can read in this thread.

This "product feature" approach simply does not work in Norway, for example. Because it directly complies with definition of "deficiency" in consumer law.

This is exactly what flipped me out, made me take this matter formally and, frankly, challenged my trust in the manufacturer.

 

[emmz0r]

Yeah it's hardly a "feature" when the sound gets worse.

 

[Kramleets]

Work description attached
I’ll report on how it goes over time

 

[Jeroenhermans]

Hi,

My november 2017 75D is going in next tuesday to finally have the struts replaced with the -C model. I really hope it will resolve this problem that has been bugging me for more than a year. I will report back next week with my findings.

Jeroen.

 

[Jarvis2018]

Ok so dropped my late 2018 100D off at the SC this morning for this issue (among a couple others). Took the main service tech on a drive and before we even pulled out of the parking lot he said "yup, that's the strut flutter." Also told me that this was something that Tesla engineering had been working on for well over a year (as evidenced by this forum). Said the 77-C was one solution that he's seen work on 50-60% of cars and that he had a few other things that he could try if that doesn't work - didn't elaborate on what those were. Mentioned that Tesla engineering was out at this particular service center (Denver, CO) a couple weeks ago looking at a few other Model S vehicles that had the same issue even after the 77-C swap. Sounded like the Tesla engineers had determined yet another solve for it that he was going to try if the 77-C did not solve the issue on mine. Will report back mid next week. Hopefully it will be taken care of and if so I'll get more details on what was done.

He was not familiar with any "wobble" of the steering wheel so didn't have anything to offer on that topic.

 

[Jarvis2018]

Here's an update...

Got a call that my car was ready for pickup. Confirmed on the phone that they had replaced the 77-Cs and that they test drove it to confirm the rattle was gone. So I drive an hour or more to the SC to pick it up, go on a test drive...and before I leave the lot I can already hear it. It's slightly less but definitely still there. The service tech in the car with me heard it as well. Went back to SC and looked up the service order detail which said they did "replace" the struts but it didn't reference the 77-Cs. Tech and I go out to the car and he looks at the struts and says that I've got the latest version. When I asked which ones he said the 25's. To which I immediately said that those are the old ones and I need the new ones put on. Also referenced the Service Bulletin (thanks to this forum) and he said he had never heard of it. I told him to go look it up and that I'd be waiting. He came back 20 min later and said that he confirmed the Service Bulletin and that one of the techs mistakenly typed that they replaced the struts when in fact they just insulated them (makes me wonder how often they do "accidentally" type that they replaced something when in fact they didn't).

So now they have the car another day. They are going to replace the struts with the 77-C, and insulate them to make sure the noise is gone. Standby for more updates tomorrow night.

Oh and while I was waiting, another Model S owner came in as was complaining about the same noise on his. He said that they told him they replaced the struts but when he went out to look at them they were dirty and had not been replaced either.

 

[michidragon]

So, looks like I'm beginning to develop this problem.

Note, @Jarvis2018 -
I'm in Colorado too; I presume this was the Littleton SC, and lately I've been trying to go to the Evans SC because they seem to be more.. receptive there. Even though smaller.

So, Manufacture date October 2018, Delivery date December 12 2018 - MS 75D.

Checked my front struts, they're definitely 25-Cs.

Any advice on what to do? This noise isn't that bad now, but is it true that it's going to get much, much worse?
Should I go in and demand the 77-Cs?

I've had bad luck so far. My car was delivered with a misaligned rear hatch, on delivery day they told me they could fix it; now they say they can't.

Have had the car in 3 times for repeater/B-pillar camera problems causing autopilot to not work; nothing they do fixes it.

And now, this.

I am worried about the honesty of the service centers lately. Having this start to happen and hearing that Tesla isn't doing anything about it (or outright lying about it) is pretty disconcerting...

 

[Art VandeIay]

Oh and while I was waiting, another Model S owner came in as was complaining about the same noise on his. He said that they told him they replaced the struts but when he went out to look at them they were dirty and had not been replaced either.

This happened to me as well .

I took my Model S in for the rattle noise issue after waiting for several months for the 77-C's to arrive. When I came back to pick up my car, I noticed the dusty and dirty 25-C's where back on. The Service Manager said the suspension noise my car has is a normal operating noise, since the suspension is "operating under manufacture specs"... I couldn't believe the load of BS I was hearing. I've had 3 loaners with the same specs as my Model S run through my same daily commute, and none of them had the rattle.

They said the noise level was exactly the same with the 77-C's installed than without them, so they took them out as they could not justify the installation of the 77-C's on my car.

I'm wondering if there's a new internal memo running around Service Centers on the subject denying further installation of 77-C's, like with the screen replacements for the yellowing borders.