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Reaction to Andrej Karpathy on the Removal of Ultrasonic Sensors and Radar

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We react to the @Lex Fridman podcast interview with Andrej Karpathy, the former Sr. Director of AI at Tesla, wherein Andrej explains why Tesla removed radar and ultrasonic sensors from its vehicles.

This is a clip from Tesla Motors Club Podcast #25:


You can watch Lex's interview of Andrej Karpathy on YouTube.
 
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Sorry for YOU BUT Tesla doesn't deactivated USS on car with USS only car without USS the distance cm is deactivated
so why previously I could set up the TACC to distance 1 and now minimum is 2? Radar has been changed to vision.

Two shortcomings that come with Tesla Vision for everyone are reduced maximum speed while on Autopilot, which is reduced from 90 MPH to 85 MPH (140 KPH), and a minimum follow distance of two.
how this is not reduced functionality?!

P.S.
I might expressed myself wrongly, but I had in mind a radar in this particular case, not USS. my bad
 
What are you trying to suggest here? That Tesla Vision for distances 1) is bad or 2) will be bad or 3) will be better or 4) something else?
The take-home message from those images is that a vision-based system won't work if it can't see and cameras, particularly the rear camera, are much more susceptible to obstruction than an ultrasonic sensor.
 
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The take-home message from those images is that a vision-based system won't work if it can't see and cameras, particularly the rear camera, are much more susceptible to obstruction than an ultrasonic sensor.

the-office-thank-you.gif
 
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This is an example of the speculation without justification. Before we can all go crazy about losing sensors, we need the objective answers to the questions about how much it really matters. It may not matter at all. If it matters, I want to know. But guessing about what may or may not happen at an imagined environmental edge is not meaningful.
The bottom line is that they should have left the sensors in the cars until the software was ready. Selling cars with no sensors and software that "is coming soon" is irresponsible of Tesla. There is no transparency at dealership. I say buyer beware
 
This response never really addresses the so what. Everyone just parrots I want sensors, because sensors. The first question to answer is objectively how much would performance be degraded without sensors. Seems like not that much. I think everything is just speculation from non-engineers.
It is speculation because the engineers don't have a software update to correct the problem taking the sensors away caused. Again, they should have left the sensors in the cars until the software was ready. So irresponsible and unethical of Tesla.
 
The bottom line is that they should have left the sensors in the cars until the software was ready. Selling cars with no sensors and software that "is coming soon" is irresponsible of Tesla. There is no transparency at dealership. I say buyer beware
Yep, this was Tesla’s epic fail. Prolly should have waited to delete the sensors until the software was ready. Or give buyers something of value to ameliorate the deficiency, like free EAP.
 
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It is speculation because the engineers don't have a software update to correct the problem taking the sensors away caused. Again, they should have left the sensors in the cars until the software was ready. So irresponsible and unethical of Tesla.
Bolded part is a running theme. Not unlike the FSD video on Tesla's website, the current 200mph Top Speed advertisement for the Plaid (it's never gone over 178), and well, the rest of the list is too long to type
 
The bottom line is that they should have left the sensors in the cars until the software was ready. Selling cars with no sensors and software that "is coming soon" is irresponsible of Tesla. There is no transparency at dealership. I say buyer beware
A very logical argument, and I totally agree. However, what if Telsa didn't have sensors to install? If they had 500,000 orders pending, and only 100,000 sensor packages available, what do they do?
 
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The bottom line is that they should have left the sensors in the cars until the software was ready. Selling cars with no sensors and software that "is coming soon" is irresponsible of Tesla. There is no transparency at dealership. I say buyer beware
The sensors are difficult to get in large quantities from what I've read, affecting all car brands. Unless this is a lie, which is always possible. But we know the 2022 sales figures are critical to Tesla, so I thought this was the reason they just went ahead without them - to get the cars sold. I have no idea if the statements about software being too complicated with both USS & Vision have any validity.
 
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A very logical argument, and I totally agree. However, what if Telsa didn't have sensors to install? If they had 500,000 orders pending, and only 100,000 sensor packages available, what do they do?
First, no one at Tesla has actually stated this to my knowledge, so stating it as a reason is simply excusing Tesla's behavior without any reason to do so.

Second, They could easily have have installed the harnesses but left the sensors out and installed them retroactively when they became available. They did neither - they chose to remove them, saying "Tesla vision can do everything the sensors do [except it can't and we hope to make it do everything sometime in the future but we don't know when that will be and until that time you get a car that's missing advertised features that are standard on every other car.]"
 
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First, no one at Tesla has actually stated this to my knowledge, so stating it as a reason is simply excusing Tesla's behavior without any reason to do so.

Second, They could easily have have installed the harnesses but left the sensors out and installed them retroactively when they became available. They did neither - they chose to remove them, saying "Tesla vision can do everything the sensors do [except it can't and we hope to make it do everything sometime in the future but we don't know when that will be and until that time you get a car that's missing advertised features that are standard on every other car.]"
You're firmly entrenched in your viewpoint, so I won't attempt to dissuade you further.
 
A very logical argument, and I totally agree. However, what if Telsa didn't have sensors to install? If they had 500,000 orders pending, and only 100,000 sensor packages available, what do they do?
Same thing they did with the missing USB ports, when that hardware wasnt avail, but Tesla still had the USB port holes in place for later retrofit. Could have had the parking sensor harnesses run, and had holes in the bumpers filled with small pop out pieces of plastic that could be punched out/discarded/replaced with sensors once they became available. Or no holes at all, and had the local SC or ranger drill the holes in minutes (ive installed aftermarket sensors in prior cars and small hole cutting bit in drill makes easy work out of it) and did a quick retrofit once they became available.

The above is assuming there were no sensors available/that was the actual excuse. (Which hasnt even been confirmed).
 
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You're firmly entrenched in your viewpoint, so I won't attempt to dissuade you further.
you (and others) want to have your cake and eat it too.

The stated claim is that Vision doesn't need sensors - cameras do the job. Yet it doesn't do the job today. This is not disputable. Features have been disabled. But they'd still like folks to pay 6 or 15k to get this incomplete software. Only once (and if) they implement a camera based system can we debate the effectiveness of Vision only.

The obvious alt motivation is either parts supply or margin. But neither of those sound good to consumers.

You folks need to pick one lane here.
 
you (and others) want to have your cake and eat it too.

The stated claim is that Vision doesn't need sensors - cameras do the job. Yet it doesn't do the job today. This is not disputable. Features have been disabled. But they'd still like folks to pay 6 or 15k to get this incomplete software. Only once (and if) they implement a camera based system can we debate the effectiveness of Vision only.

The obvious alt motivation is either parts supply or margin. But neither of those sound good to consumers.

You folks need to pick one lane here.
The problem is that I have my cake, and I'm eating it. Others do not have their cake yet.
 
OK. How ‘bout they add that annoying beeping sound utility vehicles make when going in reverse? So when I back up from a parking space and can’t see cars approaching from the side, somebody might be warned.

That’s what I want. Will someone please tweet this idea to Elon? I do’t use Twitter…
 
you (and others) want to have your cake and eat it too.

The stated claim is that Vision doesn't need sensors - cameras do the job. Yet it doesn't do the job today. This is not disputable. Features have been disabled. But they'd still like folks to pay 6 or 15k to get this incomplete software. Only once (and if) they implement a camera based system can we debate the effectiveness of Vision only.

The obvious alt motivation is either parts supply or margin. But neither of those sound good to consumers.

You folks need to pick one lane here.
Add to that, the CEO has established a pretty good track record of making misleading or downright fraudulent statements previously. So many are going to be skeptical of any excuses that he makes these days.