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Reduced Range - Tesla Issued a Service Bulletin for possible fix
- Thread starter shiv987
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*Thank you* -- I totally forgot about it -- here, let me grab a screenshot... okay, 298 doesn't sound too bad, but curious to see that dip. The car is 18 months old at this point... gotta check the tire sticker to see when it was manufactured...
so be 100% honest I had them check it when i was in the service center for something else.
To close out the loop, my LR AWD shows a manufacturing date of 8/18. I figure if I'm really at 298, I'll assume it's good enough for now, Supercharging "thunk" sound and all, and let them sort it out whenever they call me back for HW3.
C141medic
Active Member
So, I was just perusing the TSB’s for my manufacture date of 8/26/18. Apparently I have about three or four that fall within the parameters of my manufacture date and the TSB. Unfortunately one of them is the HV battery replacement. It looks like I’ll be asking about it when I make an appointment to get my HW 2.5 computer upgraded. I’ll post any updates once I schedule at the SC.
Valcine
Member
My 3 is a LeMR, not performance. As a disclaimer I have to admit I haven’t read this whole thread but I was reviewing my battery degradation and I have the same dramatic drop that I assume coincidentally occurred with a software update.
Attachments
Tesla did a remote "HV battery auto test" on my Model 3 and concluded it was within specs with no alerts. Interestingly, my full charge went from 279 to 292 after the test.
Regardless, I tend to get better milage averaging 260wh per mile vs EPA 291.
Regardless, I tend to get better milage averaging 260wh per mile vs EPA 291.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
My service appointment is today, bringing many documents with me. I'll post back tonight with results.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
Went to my service appointment today, I feel it went rather well. What I've wanted from the beginning is for Tesla to show true concern for this issue and resolve to take a very close look at my car and my battery. They did so at this appointment, and the service technicians and managers at the Houston Westchase service center are, and have always been, really good at what they do.
I was able to show them several items:
1. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my 9/2018 build P3D is at around 10.8 % at 34,000 miles.
2. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my wife's 4/2018 build 3LR is at around 2.0 % at 21,000 miles.
3. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my previous 4/2015 build Modem S 85D was at around 4.5 % when the vehicle was turned in after it's 3-year lease (04/2018) with 65,000 miles.
4. I showed the following copies of service bulletins that reference mistakes that were made in HV battery construction for the Model 3 in 2018:
Now, not all of these service bulletins describe a defect that would affect range, but a number of them do. I made the argument that the sheer number of service bulletins (eight) involving mistakes in battery construction warrant a very careful look at my battery as well as the entire Model 3 fleet of batteries. It points to a situation where that in 2018, Tesla's battery production rate was exceeding their ability to maintain quality control. I made the argument that due to the low quality control during this build period, there could be additional battery construction mistakes that have yet to be discovered, and probably cannot be automatically detected by the car's software, since software can only detect what it's programmed to detect. They agreed that additional scrutiny is warranted, and my case with the virtual tech team is going to have them perform an in-depth examination on my battery.
I do not expect that they will discover something new in my battery, but my purpose here with this appointment was to make sure that everything that can be looked at has been. I am now satisfied that that is being done.
I do however, want them to explain why an identical battery has only 1/5th the degredation of mine, and that a previous-generation battery that is 3 years older than mine has 1/2 the degredation at twice the number of miles. They said they will do their best to have an explanation of these items after my battery is examined.
By the way, the official measure that Tesla uses to track this is called the "Battery Retention" by their software, and is given in percentage. It is the amount of energy that the battery can hold at the current time compared to the amount of energy it could hold when it was brand new. It's calculated as:
RMn = Rated Miles new, RMc = Rated Miles current.
My battery is at about 91% Battery Retention, which corresponds nicely with the TeslaFi.com graphs, although TeslaFi.com reports this in a different way -- it reports as miles lost as a percent of current capacity.
Also, the service manager did give me the standard disclaimer that 3rd-party software tools are not "accepted" by Tesla as evidence. I expected this, and my response was that A) just because they're 3rd-party doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, they correlate nicely with Tesla's own tools. And B) the data there is not made up or measured -- it's Tesla's own data being reported by the car, obtained through their own API. So I'm not sure was not being "accepted" means, as it's the car's own numbers. I think the service manager fully understood this, but was giving me the disclaimer because he's required to.
The case that is open with the virtual tech team now has copies of all of my graphs and reference to all of the service bulletins, and is assigned to their lead virtual tech. I'm happy with this response, as it's showing me that they do care about this issue, and want to do everything they can to assure me that the car is working properly. The service manager also stated that my battery is fully warranted, and if a problem develops later that meets the criteria of excessive degredation, that Tesla will be happy to replace the battery. He did not mention numbers or the threshholds for that criteria, but I believe he was genuine in this response.
Anyway, while it's not likely that I'm going to get a new battery or anything, I'm happy that the service center here in Houston still has great customer service, and genuinely wants me to be happy, unlike some of the people on the phone from California who tried to tell me that I was simply driving too fast on summer tires.
Note that I do not recommend that everyone who has a concern about their battery capacity schedule a service visit and present gobs of service bulletins and graphs, as it's likely not going to result in anything being done to your car. I would recommend that you check the service bulletins, and if your car has a build date that falls in the service bulletin's range, that you schedule a service appointment specifically for that. It is a fact that there were many battery construction mistakes that were made in 2018, and if your car is affected, you can get it fixed. But don't clog up Tesla's service centers if you're not affected.
I hope this helps others.
I was able to show them several items:
1. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my 9/2018 build P3D is at around 10.8 % at 34,000 miles.
2. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my wife's 4/2018 build 3LR is at around 2.0 % at 21,000 miles.
3. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my previous 4/2015 build Modem S 85D was at around 4.5 % when the vehicle was turned in after it's 3-year lease (04/2018) with 65,000 miles.
4. I showed the following copies of service bulletins that reference mistakes that were made in HV battery construction for the Model 3 in 2018:
- SB-18-16-012 - Battery monitor boards attached with insufficient adhesive
- SB-18-16-017 - Cooling tubes insufficiently brazed
- SB-19-16-003 - Incorrectly wire-bonded cells
- SB-18-16-009 R1 - Missing battery breather valves
- SB-18-16-013 - Missing battery positive contactor mounting nuts
- SB-19-16-004 - Incorrectly fastened clamshell graft
- SB-18-16-010 - Missing cell wire bonds
- SB-19-16-009 - Missing cell interconnects
Now, not all of these service bulletins describe a defect that would affect range, but a number of them do. I made the argument that the sheer number of service bulletins (eight) involving mistakes in battery construction warrant a very careful look at my battery as well as the entire Model 3 fleet of batteries. It points to a situation where that in 2018, Tesla's battery production rate was exceeding their ability to maintain quality control. I made the argument that due to the low quality control during this build period, there could be additional battery construction mistakes that have yet to be discovered, and probably cannot be automatically detected by the car's software, since software can only detect what it's programmed to detect. They agreed that additional scrutiny is warranted, and my case with the virtual tech team is going to have them perform an in-depth examination on my battery.
I do not expect that they will discover something new in my battery, but my purpose here with this appointment was to make sure that everything that can be looked at has been. I am now satisfied that that is being done.
I do however, want them to explain why an identical battery has only 1/5th the degredation of mine, and that a previous-generation battery that is 3 years older than mine has 1/2 the degredation at twice the number of miles. They said they will do their best to have an explanation of these items after my battery is examined.
By the way, the official measure that Tesla uses to track this is called the "Battery Retention" by their software, and is given in percentage. It is the amount of energy that the battery can hold at the current time compared to the amount of energy it could hold when it was brand new. It's calculated as:
RMn = Rated Miles new, RMc = Rated Miles current.
My battery is at about 91% Battery Retention, which corresponds nicely with the TeslaFi.com graphs, although TeslaFi.com reports this in a different way -- it reports as miles lost as a percent of current capacity.
Also, the service manager did give me the standard disclaimer that 3rd-party software tools are not "accepted" by Tesla as evidence. I expected this, and my response was that A) just because they're 3rd-party doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, they correlate nicely with Tesla's own tools. And B) the data there is not made up or measured -- it's Tesla's own data being reported by the car, obtained through their own API. So I'm not sure was not being "accepted" means, as it's the car's own numbers. I think the service manager fully understood this, but was giving me the disclaimer because he's required to.
The case that is open with the virtual tech team now has copies of all of my graphs and reference to all of the service bulletins, and is assigned to their lead virtual tech. I'm happy with this response, as it's showing me that they do care about this issue, and want to do everything they can to assure me that the car is working properly. The service manager also stated that my battery is fully warranted, and if a problem develops later that meets the criteria of excessive degredation, that Tesla will be happy to replace the battery. He did not mention numbers or the threshholds for that criteria, but I believe he was genuine in this response.
Anyway, while it's not likely that I'm going to get a new battery or anything, I'm happy that the service center here in Houston still has great customer service, and genuinely wants me to be happy, unlike some of the people on the phone from California who tried to tell me that I was simply driving too fast on summer tires.
Note that I do not recommend that everyone who has a concern about their battery capacity schedule a service visit and present gobs of service bulletins and graphs, as it's likely not going to result in anything being done to your car. I would recommend that you check the service bulletins, and if your car has a build date that falls in the service bulletin's range, that you schedule a service appointment specifically for that. It is a fact that there were many battery construction mistakes that were made in 2018, and if your car is affected, you can get it fixed. But don't clog up Tesla's service centers if you're not affected.
I hope this helps others.
Went to my service appointment today, I feel it went rather well. What I've wanted from the beginning is for Tesla to show true concern for this issue and resolve to take a very close look at my car and my battery. They did so at this appointment, and the service technicians and managers at the Houston Westchase service center are, and have always been, really good at what they do.
I was able to show them several items:
1. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my 9/2018 build P3D is at around 10.8 % at 34,000 miles.
2. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my wife's 4/2018 build 3LR is at around 2.0 % at 21,000 miles.
3. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my previous 4/2015 build Modem S 85D was at around 4.5 % when the vehicle was turned in after it's 3-year lease (04/2018) with 65,000 miles.
4. I showed the following copies of service bulletins that reference mistakes that were made in HV battery construction for the Model 3 in 2018:
Based on the affected vehicle build dates given in each service bulletin, the only two of these that could have applied to my car are the last two, SB-18-16-010 and SB-19-16-009. My car build date was verified as 9/13/2018, thus neither of those service bulletins should apply to my car, but the service manager opened a case with the virtual tech team to verify that that is indeed the case. He reasoned that since the build date is so close to SB-19-16-009, it warrants being double-checked.
- SB-18-16-012 - Battery monitor boards attached with insufficient adhesive
- SB-18-16-017 - Cooling tubes insufficiently brazed
- SB-19-16-003 - Incorrectly wire-bonded cells
- SB-18-16-009 R1 - Missing battery breather valves
- SB-18-16-013 - Missing battery positive contactor mounting nuts
- SB-19-16-004 - Incorrectly fastened clamshell graft
- SB-18-16-010 - Missing cell wire bonds
- SB-19-16-009 - Missing cell interconnects
Now, not all of these service bulletins describe a defect that would affect range, but a number of them do. I made the argument that the sheer number of service bulletins (eight) involving mistakes in battery construction warrant a very careful look at my battery as well as the entire Model 3 fleet of batteries. It points to a situation where that in 2018, Tesla's battery production rate was exceeding their ability to maintain quality control. I made the argument that due to the low quality control during this build period, there could be additional battery construction mistakes that have yet to be discovered, and probably cannot be automatically detected by the car's software, since software can only detect what it's programmed to detect. They agreed that additional scrutiny is warranted, and my case with the virtual tech team is going to have them perform an in-depth examination on my battery.
I do not expect that they will discover something new in my battery, but my purpose here with this appointment was to make sure that everything that can be looked at has been. I am now satisfied that that is being done.
I do however, want them to explain why an identical battery has only 1/5th the degredation of mine, and that a previous-generation battery that is 3 years older than mine has 1/2 the degredation at twice the number of miles. They said they will do their best to have an explanation of these items after my battery is examined.
By the way, the official measure that Tesla uses to track this is called the "Battery Retention" by their software, and is given in percentage. It is the amount of energy that the battery can hold at the current time compared to the amount of energy it could hold when it was brand new. It's calculated as:
RMn = Rated Miles new, RMc = Rated Miles current.
My battery is at about 91% Battery Retention, which corresponds nicely with the TeslaFi.com graphs, although TeslaFi.com reports this in a different way -- it reports as miles lost as a percent of current capacity.
Also, the service manager did give me the standard disclaimer that 3rd-party software tools are not "accepted" by Tesla as evidence. I expected this, and my response was that A) just because they're 3rd-party doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, they correlate nicely with Tesla's own tools. And B) the data there is not made up or measured -- it's Tesla's own data being reported by the car, obtained through their own API. So I'm not sure was not being "accepted" means, as it's the car's own numbers. I think the service manager fully understood this, but was giving me the disclaimer because he's required to.
The case that is open with the virtual tech team now has copies of all of my graphs and reference to all of the service bulletins, and is assigned to their lead virtual tech. I'm happy with this response, as it's showing me that they do care about this issue, and want to do everything they can to assure me that the car is working properly. The service manager also stated that my battery is fully warranted, and if a problem develops later that meets the criteria of excessive degredation, that Tesla will be happy to replace the battery. He did not mention numbers or the threshholds for that criteria, but I believe he was genuine in this response.
Anyway, while it's not likely that I'm going to get a new battery or anything, I'm happy that the service center here in Houston still has great customer service, and genuinely wants me to be happy, unlike some of the people on the phone from California who tried to tell me that I was simply driving too fast on summer tires.
Note that I do not recommend that everyone who has a concern about their battery capacity schedule a service visit and present gobs of service bulletins and graphs, as it's likely not going to result in anything being done to your car. I would recommend that you check the service bulletins, and if your car has a build date that falls in the service bulletin's range, that you schedule a service appointment specifically for that. It is a fact that there were many battery construction mistakes that were made in 2018, and if your car is affected, you can get it fixed. But don't clog up Tesla's service centers if you're not affected.
I hope this helps others.
lucid and well written post. Please keep us updated.
My 6/19 build SR has never been upto the rated 220 either (highest is 202) but since it's within 20% I haven't contacted service
Glad you had a good experience at Westchase. That’s my SC, too. They just did my HW3 upgrade.Went to my service appointment today, I feel it went rather well. What I've wanted from the beginning is for Tesla to show true concern for this issue and resolve to take a very close look at my car and my battery. They did so at this appointment, and the service technicians and managers at the Houston Westchase service center are, and have always been, really good at what they do.
I was able to show them several items:
1. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my 9/2018 build P3D is at around 10.8 % at 34,000 miles.
2. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my wife's 4/2018 build 3LR is at around 2.0 % at 21,000 miles.
3. TeslaFi graphs showing that the battery degredation on my previous 4/2015 build Modem S 85D was at around 4.5 % when the vehicle was turned in after it's 3-year lease (04/2018) with 65,000 miles.
4. I showed the following copies of service bulletins that reference mistakes that were made in HV battery construction for the Model 3 in 2018:
Based on the affected vehicle build dates given in each service bulletin, the only two of these that could have applied to my car are the last two, SB-18-16-010 and SB-19-16-009. My car build date was verified as 9/13/2018, thus neither of those service bulletins should apply to my car, but the service manager opened a case with the virtual tech team to verify that that is indeed the case. He reasoned that since the build date is so close to SB-19-16-009, it warrants being double-checked.
- SB-18-16-012 - Battery monitor boards attached with insufficient adhesive
- SB-18-16-017 - Cooling tubes insufficiently brazed
- SB-19-16-003 - Incorrectly wire-bonded cells
- SB-18-16-009 R1 - Missing battery breather valves
- SB-18-16-013 - Missing battery positive contactor mounting nuts
- SB-19-16-004 - Incorrectly fastened clamshell graft
- SB-18-16-010 - Missing cell wire bonds
- SB-19-16-009 - Missing cell interconnects
Now, not all of these service bulletins describe a defect that would affect range, but a number of them do. I made the argument that the sheer number of service bulletins (eight) involving mistakes in battery construction warrant a very careful look at my battery as well as the entire Model 3 fleet of batteries. It points to a situation where that in 2018, Tesla's battery production rate was exceeding their ability to maintain quality control. I made the argument that due to the low quality control during this build period, there could be additional battery construction mistakes that have yet to be discovered, and probably cannot be automatically detected by the car's software, since software can only detect what it's programmed to detect. They agreed that additional scrutiny is warranted, and my case with the virtual tech team is going to have them perform an in-depth examination on my battery.
I do not expect that they will discover something new in my battery, but my purpose here with this appointment was to make sure that everything that can be looked at has been. I am now satisfied that that is being done.
I do however, want them to explain why an identical battery has only 1/5th the degredation of mine, and that a previous-generation battery that is 3 years older than mine has 1/2 the degredation at twice the number of miles. They said they will do their best to have an explanation of these items after my battery is examined.
By the way, the official measure that Tesla uses to track this is called the "Battery Retention" by their software, and is given in percentage. It is the amount of energy that the battery can hold at the current time compared to the amount of energy it could hold when it was brand new. It's calculated as:
RMn = Rated Miles new, RMc = Rated Miles current.
My battery is at about 91% Battery Retention, which corresponds nicely with the TeslaFi.com graphs, although TeslaFi.com reports this in a different way -- it reports as miles lost as a percent of current capacity.
Also, the service manager did give me the standard disclaimer that 3rd-party software tools are not "accepted" by Tesla as evidence. I expected this, and my response was that A) just because they're 3rd-party doesn't mean they're wrong. In fact, they correlate nicely with Tesla's own tools. And B) the data there is not made up or measured -- it's Tesla's own data being reported by the car, obtained through their own API. So I'm not sure was not being "accepted" means, as it's the car's own numbers. I think the service manager fully understood this, but was giving me the disclaimer because he's required to.
The case that is open with the virtual tech team now has copies of all of my graphs and reference to all of the service bulletins, and is assigned to their lead virtual tech. I'm happy with this response, as it's showing me that they do care about this issue, and want to do everything they can to assure me that the car is working properly. The service manager also stated that my battery is fully warranted, and if a problem develops later that meets the criteria of excessive degredation, that Tesla will be happy to replace the battery. He did not mention numbers or the threshholds for that criteria, but I believe he was genuine in this response.
Anyway, while it's not likely that I'm going to get a new battery or anything, I'm happy that the service center here in Houston still has great customer service, and genuinely wants me to be happy, unlike some of the people on the phone from California who tried to tell me that I was simply driving too fast on summer tires.
Note that I do not recommend that everyone who has a concern about their battery capacity schedule a service visit and present gobs of service bulletins and graphs, as it's likely not going to result in anything being done to your car. I would recommend that you check the service bulletins, and if your car has a build date that falls in the service bulletin's range, that you schedule a service appointment specifically for that. It is a fact that there were many battery construction mistakes that were made in 2018, and if your car is affected, you can get it fixed. But don't clog up Tesla's service centers if you're not affected.
I hope this helps others.
Did they have an explanation for the big drops (presumably) corresponding to software updates? Is it assumed these updates actually affect battery performance, or merely the way capacity is computed?
My 8/18 P3D is low mileage (7500), but I just saw the first big decrease (310-304). I get my data from Stats app, car charged to 90% nightly (48 amp HPWC).
C141medic
Active Member
It may be helpful to find your exact build date. Mine was also 8/2018 but I emailed Tesla support to ascertain the exact production date. Within a week I was informed that it was 8/26/18 which unfortunately falls within the date parameters for two of the replace HV battery TSB’s. I only have about 5K miles so not sure if that’s enough miles that would be statistically significant to indicate range loss?
Stats estimate is definitely temperature dependent. You're in Houston, so, not likely to be that cold, but anything under 50F, or anything that can trigger regen dots on the display, can trigger a drop in rated range.
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