The sales have slowed down considerably in recent quarters. It’s only aggressive incentives that kept them moving. Between the competition getting better and the Teslas stagnating, I fully expect sales to crater in the coming year or two.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Replacement for Model S/X?
- Thread starter tallypwner
- Start date
People make this comparison a lot, but I don’t think it’s really a fair one. Yes Porsches look fairly similar from one generation to the next, but they do technically change every single exterior component and body panel. That wasn’t really the case with the S.
Under the hood I agree the Paladium was a pretty significant refresh. But barely changing the body panels was clearly a cost cutting move.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Taking this in context though, this played out across the entire auto industry. Not just Tesla. I'm not so sure they're an outlier.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Tesla's sales grew by 35% and 500,000 units year over year from 2022 to 2023. Not sure how you can call that "declining sales"?
Market share decline is a natural consequence of more competition and availability from other manufacturers but is not in and of itself a distress signal.
2023 quarterly deliveries:
Q1: 422k (record high)
Q2: 466k (record high)
Q3: 435k (Shanghai production pause for Highland switchover)
Q4: 484k (record high)
You're painting a picture here that just doesn't check out.
Last edited:
I think we can call those figures overall stagnant. Q3 saw a decline. Q4 only went up with aggressive price cuts and incentives. They can’t do that every quarter.
Even if you want to call it overall growth, the declining market share means they grew less than everyone else. Their outlook in China in particular looks particularly grim. The tide is turning
Even if you want to call it overall growth, the declining market share means they grew less than everyone else. Their outlook in China in particular looks particularly grim. The tide is turning
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Three record quarters, one dip due at least in part to a production line pause to debut a new product, 500,000 units ahead year over year, and a 35% annual increase in production....
"overall stagnant"
Clearly you're gonna believe what you want to believe, and denial aint just a river in Egypt.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
That is definitely not what that means. Not sure how you can spin that.
funny how that’s more applicable to you. If you can’t see that this company has no hats left to pull, then I don’t know what else to tell you.
Historically Tesla has much stronger sales in q3 and 4 than q1/2. The fact that this year q3 saw a decline and q4 could only match the first two quarters with unprecedented incentives should be concerning for anyone who cares about the financials of the company.
I don't see a lot of the Model S refresh changes as positives. I see many of them as cost cutting. The yoke, haptic buttons instead of real buttons, touchscreen gear change instead of stalks, the landscape screen. I see all of these as cost cutting negatives that make the product worse. For me. I see the 2024 Model S as a 2012 Model S with a few upgrades and a few nerfs. My car was about $123k new. After 13 years of heavy inflation it now starts at $75k. There's a lot of cheapening out of the product going on as well as production efficiencies.
I tried out a newer Model S and didn't think the seats were as comfortable, and didn't like several other elements that felt cheaper.
I've been loaned a Model X Ludacris and I didn't think it was very good. Harsh ride, poor handling, mediocre interior. This was prior to the Raven era updates.
I do think they aren't a horrible value and still really good performance/range for the money. But there's competition now.
I've been in a couple Model 3's and it felt just too cheap and bare bones for me, like sub Camry quality for sure.
I don't think "minimalism" marketing works on me. I just see cheap cost cutting. I like premium materials, physical buttons and stalks, cleanly integrated screens, pleasing ergonomics. All the things Porsche tends to get just right. I'm too big for a Taycan though and they're too expensive.
Ideally I'd like to see the S and X combined into a single mid size crossover that's slightly larger and much more luxurious than the Y for $80k. Then they could offer an extended wheelbase version with a 3rd row to cover 2 segments.
The essence of my gripe is there doesn't seem to be an upgrade offering from Tesla from my 2013 P85+. Yes, some things have improved like suspension but many things have gotten worse, so it's a wash for me and not worth spending any money.
*I also really like that my car is the lightest Model S with RWD. I call it the Miata of Model S's. I wish we could still get a RWD Model S. I have no interest in extreme launch acceleration or AWD. RWD just feels better, simpler.
I tried out a newer Model S and didn't think the seats were as comfortable, and didn't like several other elements that felt cheaper.
I've been loaned a Model X Ludacris and I didn't think it was very good. Harsh ride, poor handling, mediocre interior. This was prior to the Raven era updates.
I do think they aren't a horrible value and still really good performance/range for the money. But there's competition now.
I've been in a couple Model 3's and it felt just too cheap and bare bones for me, like sub Camry quality for sure.
I don't think "minimalism" marketing works on me. I just see cheap cost cutting. I like premium materials, physical buttons and stalks, cleanly integrated screens, pleasing ergonomics. All the things Porsche tends to get just right. I'm too big for a Taycan though and they're too expensive.
Ideally I'd like to see the S and X combined into a single mid size crossover that's slightly larger and much more luxurious than the Y for $80k. Then they could offer an extended wheelbase version with a 3rd row to cover 2 segments.
The essence of my gripe is there doesn't seem to be an upgrade offering from Tesla from my 2013 P85+. Yes, some things have improved like suspension but many things have gotten worse, so it's a wash for me and not worth spending any money.
*I also really like that my car is the lightest Model S with RWD. I call it the Miata of Model S's. I wish we could still get a RWD Model S. I have no interest in extreme launch acceleration or AWD. RWD just feels better, simpler.
cptnslo
Member
I’m sorry but that is the DEFINITION of why the American market is full of dog *sugar* options because people want to combine everything into crossovers.
Crossovers are just convenient, comfortable, easy to get in and out of, hatchback makes for easy cargo hauling, higher ground clearance means less chance for damage. I've already ripped the bumper off my Model S on a normal sized parking curb. I'm too old for that slammed life and having to heave myself out of the car every time because it's so low and deep set. If you want the low slug car get the Model 3 or Roadster. I don't want a barebones minimalism Model Y nor a 3 row large SUV X. There's a reason most people, trucks excluded, just buy mid size crossovers. They handle great now and they're ultra comfortable and practical.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Lies, damed lies, and statistics... I guess let's go ahead and have that basic arithmetic lesson.
Let's assume a hypothetical market of 1 million EVs that I control 95% of.
Now let's say that market grows in the next year by 50%, to an overall market of 1.5 million. Of the net new 500k cars, I capture 450,000 of them, while my competitors net 50,000.
My market share, as a percentage, is now 93%. Who was it again that "grew more" in this scenario, and by what definition of grew? I produced 450,000 more cars. My competitors, in aggregate, produced 50,000 more. Yet apparently my "declining market share means I grew less than everyone else" in your exact words. The "basic arithmetic" says that's bullshit by any meaningful interpretation of growth.
As I said above - market share decline is a natural consequence of more competition and availability from other manufacturers but is not in and of itself a distress signal. Nor is it a necessarily a sign of anything positive - nobody's in here trying to make a point with Faraday Future because they've increased their market share by 200% as a result of delivering two cars.
But this thread very obviously wasn't meant to be about facts and logic, it's about feelings. When you contribute contrary data points to a thread about feelings, this is what you get:
Tiger
Active Member
cptnslo
Member
This would be interesting if those 0-60 times are accurate since that’s a full sized suv, down 70 hp from the model s and less than .5 slower 0-60. Something doesn’t seem right but I guess we will see
Tiger
Active Member
Similar threads
