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(Reported on 12/26/2015) 11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch!

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Yah, that will make a great front-age article about Tesla - look, Tesla uses diesel generators to power its "clean" cars. No thanks.


Like this you mean?

Nothampton SpC.jpg


I couldn't help but take a photo due to the irony of this powering the Northampton (UK) SpC's. It was supposedly just a temporary measure as they got a larger feed, and I haven't been back since to see if it's gone.

I also have a sneaky suspicion that there is an auxillary genset hidden in an innocuous white cabin 10 metres away from the SpC compound at the Badgers Farm (UK) site. (Can't see what else would require massive wires running from this cabin over a wall out of sight, then back into the SpC cabinets).
 
Harris Ranch only has 6 permanent stalls as well. The other 4 stalls are temporary units. (They've been there so long at this point, we think of Harris as being a 10-stall supercharger now.)

Wonder why the same thing can't be done at Tejon? They definitely have the 4 extra parking spaces, just to the right of the current stalls. So it must be a problem getting enough power to that site. (In fact, isn't Tejon solar powered? Hmm.)

There may not be enough power at Tejon to support extra supercharger stalls. They may expand when Tesla power has the stationary power packs and they can put in solar with battery back up. However, solar wouldn't help when Tejon is having the Tule fogs.
 
I'm at the Tejon SC right now... Currently a 2 car wait, myself included.

Edit: Interestingly, 50% of the cars charging right now are new enough not to have plates yet.
And, thus they might be extra cautious in charging up more than they need to before reaching the next SC. I know I was a bit apprehensive the first week or so w/my Leaf.

As for not new enough to have plates, some people receive them (or should've) and still don't put them on. There's a BMW X6 at my work (haven't seen it recently) that still had the paper dealer placards for well over a year. I wonder if they've ever been pulled over.
 
It makes it even more frustrating that when you finally get your spot in a full supercharger, that it charges at such a slow speed. It was charging my S at 40 miles per hour in Tejon. The fact is I now plan my trips to NOT be on the road coming back to LA on a Sunday or after a holiday. Glad we still have an ICE car for a second car....we can take trips that fit into our schedule. If TESLA employees are monitoring this, why can't you update the NAV supercharger buttons to be a different color (BLACK) when they are 100% full or not working?
 
The fact is I now plan my trips to NOT be on the road coming back to LA on a Sunday or after a holiday. Glad we still have an ICE car for a second car....we can take trips that fit into our schedule....
When the 10 Supercharger stalls that have been reported to be under construction at Buttonwillow come online next year (and they could go live in a few months if all goes well) then you will be able to confidently drive your Tesla on I5 in the Central Valley on days convenient to you.
It is still early days in the EV revolution, and we are living with the growing pains. I like to keep in mind that it is a lot easier to build charging stations than it is to build gas stations.
 
It makes it even more frustrating that when you finally get your spot in a full supercharger, that it charges at such a slow speed. It was charging my S at 40 miles per hour in Tejon. The fact is I now plan my trips to NOT be on the road coming back to LA on a Sunday or after a holiday. Glad we still have an ICE car for a second car....we can take trips that fit into our schedule. If TESLA employees are monitoring this, why can't you update the NAV supercharger buttons to be a different color (BLACK) when they are 100% full or not working?

The only trouble I see with any kind of predictors being sent to your car is that supercharger stalls aren't busy for long before the car is ready to go again. You would see your black icon, figure it's full, and do -- something, I don't know what, and by the time you might have gotten there, there are stalls empty, so the predictor would be wrong. Or, the converse, the icon shows red, you drive in, and as you pull up three other cars are lining up and plugging in.

In my limited experience, since it only takes a few minutes to charge (barring newbies who think they have to spend a couple hours getting up to full to make it the 130 miles to the next stop) cars rotate out every few minutes. This one day when Tejon was jammed is a real outlier.

Some drivers will never convince themselves that electric driving is so superior that they will never drive ICE again, but a lot of us would rather put up with a short wait, or even a long one sometimes, for the better drive.

I notice on the news, though, that thousands of people had to wait days, not hours, to get to and from this season, because they chose air travel during the busiest travel day of the year. Or they were stranded on the side of the icy road freezing because they had to take a trip to "fit" their "schedule". Sometimes even and ICE car doesn't improve things. I have sold my other cars, Tesla is it now, and I am happy. I don't wait, I make my schedule loose enough that I can miss some of the bad things that happen. And, as he said, Buttonwillow is coming. It isn't worth getting upset over, things will change, and we have the best car in the world to watch from as it does.
 
I couldn't believe it. I was making my cannonball run from the Tesla factory to San Diego last night (30th) in my brand new Model X. I arrived at Tejon at 11:45pm. Yes, there were stalls available, but no non-paired ones. Three of six were occupied. At 11:45pm! Give me a break! By 12:15, I was finally the only one still there...

Harris Ranch also needs some love. Same thing, arrived around 9:45 pm to 6 out of 10 slots occupied, had to charge slow for first while.

At least Burbank was empty at 2am...
 
The only trouble I see with any kind of predictors being sent to your car is that supercharger stalls aren't busy for long before the car is ready to go again. You would see your black icon, figure it's full, and do -- something, I don't know what, and by the time you might have gotten there, there are stalls empty, so the predictor would be wrong. Or, the converse, the icon shows red, you drive in, and as you pull up three other cars are lining up and plugging in.

In my limited experience, since it only takes a few minutes to charge (barring newbies who think they have to spend a couple hours getting up to full to make it the 130 miles to the next stop) cars rotate out every few minutes. This one day when Tejon was jammed is a real outlier.

The predictor does not need to be just the stalls are full. It can take into account how much longer the cars plugged in need to charge, and how many cars are waiting to charge and how many are on the way to the super charger.

Also "a few minutes" has not been my experience during my trips. Most of the time it's closer to 40 minutes, and that is with an un paired stall, and starting with a fairly low state of charge (under 20%)
 
The predictor does not need to be just the stalls are full. It can take into account how much longer the cars plugged in need to charge, and how many cars are waiting to charge and how many are on the way to the super charger.

Also "a few minutes" has not been my experience during my trips. Most of the time it's closer to 40 minutes, and that is with an un paired stall, and starting with a fairly low state of charge (under 20%)

I agree ~at least 40-45 min if doing most SC legs that are 140 mi or so

Predictor should show what the current output is at each stall. I think this would be very useful in determining how long cars should be charging
which of course would show that stalls are used or not.
predicting which cars are coming may be harder - especially with the current state of the trip planner trying to route cars through unnecessary SC's
 
I agree ~at least 40-45 min if doing most SC legs that are 140 mi or so

Predictor should show what the current output is at each stall. I think this would be very useful in determining how long cars should be charging
which of course would show that stalls are used or not.
predicting which cars are coming may be harder - especially with the current state of the trip planner trying to route cars through unnecessary SC's

Well, Tesla has the SOC for each vehicle plugged in as well. That might be a more direct way to train the model instead of using the power output.
 
The predictor does not need to be just the stalls are full. It can take into account how much longer the cars plugged in need to charge
This should be relatively easy with the available data.

and how many cars are waiting to charge and how many are on the way to the super charger.
I'm not convinced Tesla will be able to do this part reliably. And this part is far more susceptible to the changing conditions roblab mentioned (as these factors are even more subject to change by the time you arrive).
 
Well, Tesla has the SOC for each vehicle plugged in as well. That might be a more direct way to train the model instead of using the power output.

but SOC and output varies a bit car to car. I was at 100% but still charging > 10kW last time. In the past I have been at 98% and drawing less than 10kW
I was thinking 60s vs 90s would have more variation too....SOC or power or occupancy even would be better than nothing
 
but SOC and output varies a bit car to car. I was at 100% but still charging > 10kW last time. In the past I have been at 98% and drawing less than 10kW
I was thinking 60s vs 90s would have more variation too....SOC or power or occupancy even would be better than nothing

Good point, hadn't considered that. The best choice is probably just to build a model with a feature set that includes things like SOC, occupancy, power output, average arrivals for the period, etc. It wouldn't be exactly right, but remember that all models are wrong but some models are useful. I'd be happy with something more useful than any of those items by themselves.
 
I also have a sneaky suspicion that there is an auxillary genset hidden in an innocuous white cabin 10 metres away from the SpC compound at the Badgers Farm (UK) site. (Can't see what else would require massive wires running from this cabin over a wall out of sight, then back into the SpC cabinets).

I know nothing about the Badgers Farm site. However, there is one other obvious candidate - a 400 kWh battery pallet. Tesla has been slowly rolling them out to Supercharger locations, starting with areas that have large demand charges or large time of use swings - the battery pack lets them level the very peaky load.

Senior Tesla folks like Straubel have made presentations about the packs and there usage a few times in the last few years - it's apparently pretty much the guts of five 85 kWh battery packs arranged a little differently and places on a 4' x 6' pallet.
Walter

- - - Updated - - -

Good point, hadn't considered that. The best choice is probably just to build a model with a feature set that includes things like SOC, occupancy, power output, average arrivals for the period, etc. It wouldn't be exactly right, but remember that all models are wrong but some models are useful. I'd be happy with something more useful than any of those items by themselves.

That sounds like a very complicated model to try to guess all of those factors, and very error prone. I think the only way to really address this is from the cars up, instead - continue improving on the energy usage modeling and prediction, fix the navigation routing system.

The car knows from the energy usage on the previous leg how far off of norms it is (from extra people & luggage, or ski racks, or weather effects - though the weather might be part of the usage model itself.) The car also knows what sort of charge taper it will have in the session, based on battery temperatures, etc.

That means each car knows how long it will need at a unpaired SpC station at each stop (and can take a reasonable guess at how long it'll need at a paired station.)

In my opinion, the only way to make a really practical usage model and predictor is to combine these data sets - have each car pass a predicted time of arrival and time to charge at each charger back to a server at HQ. This server will then know hours ahead about potential overloading (and I've suggested before, if there's enough overlap in the system, it could work cooperatively with later cars to shift them on to less loaded nodes.)

Obviously, there's still some room for error here - people don't necessarily leave the moment the car is ready, and drivers may not hit their ETA (though that's really just another opportunity for deep learning in the system about the real road net and driving patterns.) This approach will also only work for folks using Navigation or driving the same trip the same way repeatedly (Tesla already tries to learn your commute, right?) On the whole, though, I think it's the only way to get a reliable model.
Walter
 
Well, Tesla has the SOC for each vehicle plugged in as well. That might be a more direct way to train the model instead of using the power output.

Okay, OT but I am getting a giggle envisioning the graphic icons Tesla could use to indicate the varying states of charge. A la Waze, they could be skinny, hungry Teslas slurping on the SuperStraw... Fat, burping Teslas with bulging headlight eyes.

Still giggling...