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RIP Dual Chargers
- Thread starter RichardMcN
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- Australia New Zealand
Ludicrs
Member
I have dual chargers and 3 phase 32 amp HPWC at home and am getting 130km/h charge rate which is a lot faster than 75km/h. If this is important to you, I'd really consider the pre facelift Model S. You might be able to pick an inventory car for a lesser price and personally I really dislike what they've done to the rear of the refresh model S.
In australia tesla supply 3 charging methods;
Mobile connector for any 10A gpo (power point)
HPWC in single phase or 3 phase, with option of two chargers in the car for 3 phase only (old model s). These are also known as a destination charger, although destination connector would be more accurate.
Supercharger which supplies DC current to direct charge the batteries, bypassing th onboard charger(s)
Then of course there are the non tesla methods to charge.
Has anybody tried the 16.5kw charger and worked out the charge rate in a practise yet? It occurred to me maybe it isn't as bad as you think it might be.
e.g. 16.5kw is 75% of 22kw, and 75% of 130km/h is closer to 98km/h.
That's the actual vs nominal trick. You can switch between the two on the car's charging screen.
Both these images are from the Model S page(with my markup).
The nominal charging rate of the 16.5 kW charger is close to the actual rate of the 22 kW charger, so if you mix them it looks like you only lose a few km/h.
Still 16.5 kW is 75% of 22 kW so a 2 hour lunchtime topup becomes a 2h 40 min topup. Tesla are not disputing this.
Both these images are from the Model S page(with my markup).
The nominal charging rate of the 16.5 kW charger is close to the actual rate of the 22 kW charger, so if you mix them it looks like you only lose a few km/h.
Still 16.5 kW is 75% of 22 kW so a 2 hour lunchtime topup becomes a 2h 40 min topup. Tesla are not disputing this.
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Are there are other chargers apart from Tesla's superchargers that can supply DC current direct to the car? I imagine if this was possible it might be expensive.
Currently the Model S and Model X support CHAdeMO via the Tesla Motors adapter.
Here is my write up on the Adapter and add on to an Efacec provided adapter.
CHAdeMO is available to all supercharging enabled Model S and Model X. (current release) Model S 60 that don't have Supercharging have to pay to have that turned on or CHAdeMO turned on (for less)
raynewman
Active Member
Tritrum in Brisbane sell a CHAdeMO charger for approx $30,000.
That's definitely lateral thinking!
Funny but I guess it shows there are no easy work-arounds to the removal of dual chargers.
See the diagrams in the following documentation:
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/d...al_Motor_Model_S_Emergency_Response_Guide.pdf
Got to it via this link:
First Responders | Tesla Motors Australia
It shows the second charger is positioned in the rear of the car - looks like directly above the battery adjacent to the primary charger - below the rear seat. I am sceptical that they removed the provision of a second charger just due to the new nose...
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/d...al_Motor_Model_S_Emergency_Response_Guide.pdf
Got to it via this link:
First Responders | Tesla Motors Australia
It shows the second charger is positioned in the rear of the car - looks like directly above the battery adjacent to the primary charger - below the rear seat. I am sceptical that they removed the provision of a second charger just due to the new nose...
Looks like the single charger in the Model X is in a different position. Wonder if they relocated it for the 2016 Model S too? If so, this might explain something.
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/2016_Model_X_Emergency_Response_Guide.pdf
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/2016_Model_X_Emergency_Response_Guide.pdf
There was a suggestion that the problem could be that the HPWC cable gets too hot with 80 amp loads. Dual chargers | Tesla Motors
That Model X Guide shows the charger right behind the charging point on the left of the boot.
Adam (Tesla Deliv Specialist) did say that the location of the charger inside the Model S has changed, so that does confirm your theory that the Model X treatment has probably been applied to the Model S.
Also the new 16.5kW option is a firmware upgrade only from the standard 11kW, and does not involve extra hardware like the old 22kW dual chargers.
As to the reasons for this change I will guess ...
1) Reducing the risk of the mains voltage cable runing through the car, and
2) A probable associated cost saving from eliminating the mains voltage cable, as well as not having to provide connection points in every car for dual chargers that would only be installed in a minority of cars.
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I thought I read somewhere that upgrading to 16.5kW could only be done at the factory, but I might be mistaken. Or read incorrect information somewhere.
If this true this could also explain a lot too. With model S, model X, and soon model 3, I imagine Tesla will want to stream line their factory processes as much as possible, and it sounds like now all cars get exactly the same charger with changes happening in software.
I imagine however that Tesla may not have considered the requirements of the Australian market when making this change....
Not just the Australian market. Here is Plugshare filtered on 32 amp 3 phase (=22kW) outlets. And reading the road trip reports on this forum (and elsewhere) shows that there are many more EV receptive locations than listed on Plugshare.
OK final decision!
- Thanks to everybody for your help on this forum.
- Tesla's Sydney people have tried hard to get my "Classic" order built without the charging downgrade but to no avail. There is a strict policy that no more Classics are to be built.
- I've looked at all the inventory cars available, none of which are quite my style.
- Nice to know about the extra range for the upgraded version, which does offset the problem a bit.
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Dylanpete
Member
Adam (Tesla Deliv Specialist) did say that the location of the charger inside the Model S has changed, so that does confirm your theory that the Model X treatment has probably been applied to the Model S.
Also the new 16.5kW option is a firmware upgrade only from the standard 11kW, and does not involve extra hardware like the old 22kW dual chargers.
As to the reasons for this change I will guess ...
1) Reducing the risk of the mains voltage cable runing through the car, and
2) A probable associated cost saving from eliminating the mains voltage cable, as well as not having to provide connection points in every car for dual chargers that would only be installed in a minority of cars.[/QUOTE]
Passing at the Tesla Service C in Antwerp yesterday, I was mentioned similar reasons why Tesla decided to swap the Gen 2 charger for the Gen 3 charger in the Model S.
- The Gen 3 was already standard for the Model X and the same standard can now be used for the Model S resulting in simplified production lines and cost savings
- The Gen 3 has the junction box incorporated resulting in simplified production and extra safety
- Previously when someone requested for an after sales upgrade to dual chargers, it was a time consuming and expensive job because the back seat had to be removed to install and connect the second physical charger. In the current design the charger is located closer to the charging port and only a firmware upgrade is needed to bring the capacity from 11 kW to 17 kW.
- Now that there is no more charger under it, the back seat sits lower giving a bit more head space for taller persons.
Further:
- It seems the decision was made in the US without consideration of markets where there are many more 3phase sockets 32A x 400-415V available than Tesla Super Chargers.
- For Australians that are interested to add a dual charger for the older version of the Model S please note that Generation 2 chargers are still available from inventory in Belgium and Europe.
Mark E
Member
The new charger is a huge mis-step from Tesla imo. It's simply not adequate when there are few supercharger or Chademo options around. Even though I hardly use my dual chargers when I've needed them they've been very useful, and it would have added substantially to the time taken for a trip with the new inferior charger.
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