T3slaOwner
Member Extraordinaire
Some conversations are better off dropped. Some people can walk away from such conversations, others can't. Just sayin'...
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Rivian Vs Tesla
- Thread starter bayx
- Start date
Some conversations are better off dropped. Some people can walk away from such conversations, others can't. Just sayin'...
I looked scale up in order to try to find a definition that might make sense in the context of this quote. The only thing that remotely fit is: "the size or level of something, especially when this is large". This doesn't really fit because the proposed Rivian model has so many rangers, so many service centres, so many lap tops etc. This is, of course, more similar to Tesla than different with the significance being that sometimes Tesla will have you take the car to the service centre and Rivian won't (at least not initially). So I don't understand your concern. Is there something I should worry about with Rivian service that I shouldn't with Tesla?
Rivian has (or will have) service centres too. But, if they meet their goal, you will never see the inside (or the outside) of one.
From what I can deduce and have experienced there are the usual, but relatively rare, sorts of problems with incompetent, overworked or lazy techs but that by and large the Ranger service works pretty well. Where Tesla needs to do some work is in getting parts to the service people and, mainly, in communications. The service is great if you can get an appointment. Getting an appointment can be a bit of a problem.
There is little doubt that the early adopters will get white glove treatment. This is a very important part of marketing. Later on I expect service is going to become much like Tesla's is today except that I hope they will learn from Telsa's missteps just as they have clearly learned from Tesla's successes. In the long run it has to be less expensive for them to have a service center near Washington, DC than it would be for them to ship all the DC area cars to Normal so they will be scaling up the number of centers for sure.
What makes you think that isn't exactly what they plan to do? Note that I am not suggesting that they will do that but why not? The service centres they are putting together and planning to put together could very well be in Ford facilities or near existing Ford facilities. The stated reason they don't want to have you go to a "Ford" facility is that they want to keep the Rivian brand distinct in peoples minds. But as you will not be in or at the repair facility they can, at least at first, use Fords real estate and you will never know.
From what I remember, Rivian will use off-the-shelf components whenever they can. That should make DIY repair easier than Tesla. So maybe that would help with the lack of service scalability.
For example, I replaced a blend door actuator in my F150 rather than take it to the dealer even though it was under warranty. The reason being that I was on vacation and could not wait.
For example, I replaced a blend door actuator in my F150 rather than take it to the dealer even though it was under warranty. The reason being that I was on vacation and could not wait.
In No. 77 while explaining why Rivian vehicles are likely to require longer charging times than Teslas I noted that ABRP seems to suggest that the existing Tesla SC's are of higher capacity than the existing non Tesla DC chargers. I went back to my logs and found that since I got the car Tesla SC's have delivered charge at an average rate of 69.4 kW whereas with CHAdeMO the average was 36.64 kW. These numbers do support what ABRP is telling me but are, of course, anecdotal in that they only represent my particular experience. YMMV! But thought this might be interesting to some.
I don't think it should be Tesla vs. Rivian. It should be Tesla and Rivian! It would be great if Tesa would allow Rivian to use their charging network across the country. With all these big-name investors, I think we're in for a treat. I am apart of the Rivian Automotive Club which is a cool fan group. If you're a fan check them out.
Why would Tesla invest tens of millions in a worldwide supercharger network and then let the competition use it? The supercharger network was one of two big things that made me walk away from the Audi Etron! At the end of the day Tesla needs to sell VOLUME to stay in business. They need every competitive advantage possible to ramp up production.
Possibly for a couple of reasons. Whether you think Tesla would be motivated by any of them or not depends on the extent to which you believe that Elon speaks the truth when he states his goals. He says his primary one is to encourage worldwide adoption of BEVs. Clearly letting another manufacturer share the Tesla network is a good way to move towards that goal. He has stated several times that any manufacturer who is willing to share in the costs of operating and expanding the network can use it. That is awfully good PR if nothing else.
Impressive as it is there are still places where the coverage of the Tesla network could be better. Among these would be the more off the beaten track places where the Rivian market supposedly lies. Were Tesla to accept that Rivian is aimed at a niche which does not really overlay one of Teslas target markets (I don't think Models 3, X, or Y will be used much for off roading and the truck is supposed to be a real truck - not what Rivian is building) then having Rivian pay for a SC in some national park only gets Tesla some advertising there without really giving any sales away to Rivian.
As it stands today Rivian vehicles will be able to use the Tesla destination charger "network".
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Interesting discussion.
Problem seems to be that Tesla has reality to deal with. People know exactly what these cars can and cannot do. They see where the company is strong, and where it is weak.
Rivian has no such reality. No customer experience at all. No products sold yet.
Only think people can judge them on is their marketing hype. No independant reviews or insight.
According to all the Marketing so far, their trucks will be flawless, quick charging, reliable and work under pretty much all conditions. Never need service and the company will stay in business for a long time...what's not to love?
Problem seems to be that Tesla has reality to deal with. People know exactly what these cars can and cannot do. They see where the company is strong, and where it is weak.
Rivian has no such reality. No customer experience at all. No products sold yet.
Only think people can judge them on is their marketing hype. No independant reviews or insight.
According to all the Marketing so far, their trucks will be flawless, quick charging, reliable and work under pretty much all conditions. Never need service and the company will stay in business for a long time...what's not to love?
T3slaOwner
Member Extraordinaire
I'd like an electric truck, but not the monsters they are designing. I used to have a T100, slightly smaller than the original Tundra but larger than the "small" pickups they are making now. Give me 350 mile range and I'll be good. That will mean I can actually use 280 miles or so. Still a lot less than the 400 mile range of a real pickup but acceptable.
I would wait for everyone to be competing in the market, but I want to drive it before I'm dead.
T3slaOwner
Member Extraordinaire
Tesla has said they would share their charging network if the others will help build it. Because of the different standards this will be a tricky thing anyway. There will be some sort of shake out at some point. It is looking like in the US it will be Tesla vs. CCS. Given that Tesla will be pushing... well, Tesla and everyone else will be pushing CCS, it seems clear how things will go. The only question is, when?
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Wow this stream is amazing... All they nay sayers... you know what you sound like all the ICER's who said the same *sugar* about TESLA when they first started. As early adopters of TESLA there were no service stations, there was not a charging network etc etc...
If you are true to Tesla and the mission then SUPPORT RIVIAN, and quit the BS.
If you are true to Tesla and the mission then SUPPORT RIVIAN, and quit the BS.
Personally, I dint like the boxy shape of SUV (not that aerodynamic).
Both my cars are electric and I know majority of charging is done at home, which I dont have to worry even if go with any other car including Leaf, but when travelling with family and kids it is important for me to have a reliable network at this stage Tesla had that edge. I agree others are coming out with their own version but still its work in progress.
Tesla Autopilot had long way to go, agreed even after a decade its not there yet. So anybody starting now will have the same problem at least Tesla had an edge in terms of fleet data. As I said it will take time and eventually all companies will be there but for now Tesla had that edge.
Claiming vs real word numbers have huge diff, I wish Rivian will be able to match with their claiming numbers and still be less than Tesla price.
when its time to change my car I wish to see more viable options, personally as of now I felt Tesla leads the electric market (as of now) who knows what future will look like.
T3slaOwner
Member Extraordinaire
I've always wondered why Tesla came out with the model 3 first and the Y second (and why they didn't give the model 3 a hatchback like the S). The Y should be a big seller and I bet it takes market share from the model 3.
If you were a large auto maker and could start with any EV you choose, what would it be? Looks like Rivian and Ford think it should be a truck. Tesla thinks sedans. Audi and Jag went with luxury...somethings, what are those cars anyway? If we can ignore the Bolt, I wonder what GM will pump out first?
I read today that Dyson bailed on their EV project. Seems they think building an electric car is so easy anyone can and is doing it... so a tight market space. That would explain a lot.
If you were a large auto maker and could start with any EV you choose, what would it be? Looks like Rivian and Ford think it should be a truck. Tesla thinks sedans. Audi and Jag went with luxury...somethings, what are those cars anyway? If we can ignore the Bolt, I wonder what GM will pump out first?
I read today that Dyson bailed on their EV project. Seems they think building an electric car is so easy anyone can and is doing it... so a tight market space. That would explain a lot.
Well, this is rather disappointing - more like a bomb:
It was just announced Rivian, best config @ launch, will be 300 miles. Any "Adventure" Tesla owner will tell you: that's not enough.
Trailer? cut range in half. Cold weather? Cut range in ... ouch. I am seriously less interested now.
It was just announced Rivian, best config @ launch, will be 300 miles. Any "Adventure" Tesla owner will tell you: that's not enough.
Trailer? cut range in half. Cold weather? Cut range in ... ouch. I am seriously less interested now.
The Rivian products are aero-challenged in a big way. There's a reason all of the Tesla products, including CT, look like extrusions from a softserve dispenser in profile, with very aggressively pinched greenhouses toward the rear of the cars, and low ride heights. That teardrop shape and low cDa from the low ride height is mission critical to highway range.
Traditional pickup box/cab configs are aero disasters, and Rivian has also stuck the truck relatively high up off the ground, if their proto videos are to be believed, it's still about at "normal crossover" height even in the truck's lowest config. I bet that hub motor setup requires some big compromises in suspension strength and locations that necessitate a higher ride height, otherwise they'd take the free range from every tenth of an inch they can lower the truck, but even the base wheel/tire setup looks ginormous.
I think people will love these things because they're a) familiar shapes b) made in Illinois and c) can actually do truck things, but highway range isn't ever going to be the selling point with that aero situation. If Tesla plans on delivering the 500+ mile range promise, CT is going to have to keep quite a bit of the proto's weirdness IMO, which isn't going to win a lot of hearts and minds.
If the timeframe was different I'd probably be an R1S buyer. I don't need 300+ miles of range nor do I need a road trip vehicle, I can do both with my gas vehicles, my utility vehicle is used for every day utility. But we're half a decade away from Rivian being "flight-proven" like even the not-quite-fully-sane Model X design has become since its 2015 debut. It feels weird to talk about teenaged-Tesla like it's the establishment player, but here we are
Traditional pickup box/cab configs are aero disasters, and Rivian has also stuck the truck relatively high up off the ground, if their proto videos are to be believed, it's still about at "normal crossover" height even in the truck's lowest config. I bet that hub motor setup requires some big compromises in suspension strength and locations that necessitate a higher ride height, otherwise they'd take the free range from every tenth of an inch they can lower the truck, but even the base wheel/tire setup looks ginormous.
I think people will love these things because they're a) familiar shapes b) made in Illinois and c) can actually do truck things, but highway range isn't ever going to be the selling point with that aero situation. If Tesla plans on delivering the 500+ mile range promise, CT is going to have to keep quite a bit of the proto's weirdness IMO, which isn't going to win a lot of hearts and minds.
If the timeframe was different I'd probably be an R1S buyer. I don't need 300+ miles of range nor do I need a road trip vehicle, I can do both with my gas vehicles, my utility vehicle is used for every day utility. But we're half a decade away from Rivian being "flight-proven" like even the not-quite-fully-sane Model X design has become since its 2015 debut. It feels weird to talk about teenaged-Tesla like it's the establishment player, but here we are
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Rivians do not have wheel hub motors. They are more rounded than some trucks and with air suspension they may be able to run low on the highway but they will still need a large battery to get ICE truck like range.
I have ordered the CT because Tesla's experience building EVs, and the Supercharger network.
I have ordered the CT because Tesla's experience building EVs, and the Supercharger network.
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