PokerBroker
Member
Ask them if they will apply your coat today to the purchase price of the upgrade when it is available in order to keep you moving today.
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Roadster 3.0
- Thread starter DrComputer
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- Roadster
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Sparrow
S105/ Roadster 189
Yes, the car is still moving and the standard charge is still producing about the same range as usual.
The question might be whether Tesla is going to evaluate the health of each old Roadster battery pack for some kind of residue value when they quote the cost of the 3.0 upgrade. A repaired pack would then be worth more at upgrade time, but even then it is hard to imagine getting a significant portion of my repair cost back. Still I guess it is worth looking into further.
The question might be whether Tesla is going to evaluate the health of each old Roadster battery pack for some kind of residue value when they quote the cost of the 3.0 upgrade. A repaired pack would then be worth more at upgrade time, but even then it is hard to imagine getting a significant portion of my repair cost back. Still I guess it is worth looking into further.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Of course the actual repair cost for Tesla will be far less since they'll be dropping the pack to install the new upgraded pack.
pharma5
Roadster F#25, Model 3 #36xx
checking in on the to-do list: real world demo, specs, prices (a la carte, please!), warranty...:frown:
Strongly agree on the need for individual pricing and availability of the various 3.0 components as opposed to offering it only as a complete package. I am quite interested to know the estimated range improvement for the individual components. I know the battery is going to be expensive, so I'm hoping that all the other pieces (aero kit, wheel bearings, brake modifications and different tires) together will be much less expensive than the new battery but will still provide a 20 to 25% improvement in range (as compared to the new battery which may provide a 40 to 60% increase in range?). If that is the case then all I really need for my driving usage is the "other pieces" of the 3.0 package. They would provide a very useful improvement in range. I can wait a few years to get the new battery, as mine still charges to 171 miles on a Standard Charge.
PokerBroker
Member
The original 2008 JB Straubel Roadster range blog says it has 55 kWh available, compared to 70 kWh with the new one.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
You may well be right, but we just don't know yet. If the new battery is 70 kWh that is 27% more than the original. But Tesla is saying essentially that the Ideal Range of the 3.0 version will be 400 miles as compared to the 245 of the Roadster when it was brand new. That is a 61% improvement. So the "non-battery" 3.0 features must contribute quite a bit to that increased range.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Tesla also said they expect the total improvement to be "40-50%", which would not result in 400 miles. They also said the 400 miles could be achieved "under certain conditions." So I'm still very dubious that 400 miles will be the real EPA range - especially given that as an add-on, I don't think (?) they will be required to check for EPA range at all; but if they do I'd be very pleasantly surprised if it's over 350.
Too bad as it's likely to be an interesting set of upgrades regardless - that is still quite an achievement. I like pharma5's list for what we need to know: real world demo, specs, prices (a la carte, please!), warranty. I have plenty of range, but I may be interested in the efficiency improvements. Better efficiency is the Roadster's only practical advantage over the Model S and my only real argument for keeping the Roadster (aside from it being more fun to drive).
As we've discussed several times before, Tesla had to offer a replacement battery, but didn't have to do the wheels/tires/brakes/aero improvements. While some of that work may have been just to say they have a 400 mile car, it also seems possible that they were using a Roadster as a test bed for Model III work (different size, but probably closer than the Model S, especially in terms of weight) to figure out exactly how much battery they would need to meet their range goals. The Model III will no doubt have the better wheels/tires/brakes and have excellent aero; offering the upgrades to Roadster owners is a nice touch assuming they are priced appropriately.
Too bad as it's likely to be an interesting set of upgrades regardless - that is still quite an achievement. I like pharma5's list for what we need to know: real world demo, specs, prices (a la carte, please!), warranty. I have plenty of range, but I may be interested in the efficiency improvements. Better efficiency is the Roadster's only practical advantage over the Model S and my only real argument for keeping the Roadster (aside from it being more fun to drive).
As we've discussed several times before, Tesla had to offer a replacement battery, but didn't have to do the wheels/tires/brakes/aero improvements. While some of that work may have been just to say they have a 400 mile car, it also seems possible that they were using a Roadster as a test bed for Model III work (different size, but probably closer than the Model S, especially in terms of weight) to figure out exactly how much battery they would need to meet their range goals. The Model III will no doubt have the better wheels/tires/brakes and have excellent aero; offering the upgrades to Roadster owners is a nice touch assuming they are priced appropriately.
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tomsax
Member
Tesla definitely did not say the Ideal Range will be 400 miles. Ideal Range means something very specific: the result of the 2-cycle EPA test, which in real life means range on level freeway in moderate weather at a steady speed around 55 mph.
Tesla said:
That statement is actually true with the original Roadster pack, it's just that the set of speeds is 14 to 22 mph* in moderate weather. The question is how much faster the new pack will allow you to go and get that range.
*The image links on the Roadster Efficiency and Range blog seem to be broken (both versions of it). Here's JB's graph from the original blog.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That can actually be deduced from the second "lost" chart - power vs. speed:
Roadster draws about 3kW of constant power at 20mph.
New battery is supposed to have ~1/4 higher capacity, so average power for same distance can be 1/4 higher, around 4kW or 28 mph.
Add improved bearings and that speed may rise to ~35 mph.
supersnoop
Tesla Roadster #334
Do we expect the battery to be lighter, or the same weight? That could affect some factors, but probably not my much.New battery is supposed to have ~1/4 higher capacity, so average power for same distance can be 1/4 higher, around 4kW or 28 mph.
Add improved bearings and that speed may rise to ~35 mph.
tomsax
Member
Well done!New battery is supposed to have ~1/4 higher capacity, so average power for same distance can be 1/4 higher, around 4kW or 28 mph.
Add improved bearings and that speed may rise to ~35 mph.
If I change the usable pack capacity in JB's spreadsheet from 55 kWh to 70 kWh, I get this chart:
So, without any aerodynamic improvements, and assuming the pack weight doesn't change significantly, the 400-mile speed comes in at 40 mph. 55 mph shows a range of 300 miles, so about 300 Ideal Miles.
Not shown, because I didn't want to change the chart scale, is the maximum range of 505 miles at 24 mph. So, really, Tesla may have been underpromising by calling it a 400-mile battery pack. :wink:
So now, we have it totally figured out, except for a real world demo, specs, prices (a la carte, please!), and warranty.
Tom thanks for clarifying, my mistake for sure!
If only Tesla would give us specific range data for the various 3.0 upgrade components...
In the Q4 conference call, when asked about the 400-mile range for Roadster 3.0, Elon did back off to 360 miles and repeated SF to LA.
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