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Roadster 3.0
- Thread starter DrComputer
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- Roadster
.Ah, my bad then. Totally confused. Someone please clarify:
What does 3.0 mean? I thought the last Roadster was 2.5. Then wouldn't 3.0 be the next generation? A "prototype" was mentioned in the OP. I assumed we were talking about a completely revamped Roadster with some options available as retrofit.
wiztecy
Active Member
Yes, the 3.0 was a poor choice but I can see where it came from. But it really doesn't make proper sense in terms of revisions and versions.
Typically a new iteration of a whole number / revision number means a major change of a piece of hardware and or software depending on what the product is. Minor numbers, the "." / "dot" part of the number represents minor changes to the product.
For example. The Roadster started out as a Roadster 1.0, however there were some issues with the 2 speed gearbox and a single speed gearbox replaced it. There were some PEM / IC changes in the PEM to allow the car to achieve a 0-60mph time in under 4 seconds. With those improvements, it was labeled as a 1.5 Roadster.
When the 2.0 came out, the interior design changed, VMS location moved, seats changed in height and support, as well as the PEM underwent a new design change. The PEM change was a total change in design so Tesla can save some money on paying royalties in the way the Roadster used inductive charging off the AC motor. It was also made cheaper, no longer were airplane quality connectors used on the battery to PEM connections. The interior was also made with cost reduction in mind. And the price of the Roadster increased to help Tesla survive. A sport adjustable suspension was also offered in the 2.0, also the Roadster sport became available in the 2.0 version.
The 2.5 was just an upgrade to the look of the Roadster, no significant changes were made hardware/software wise, but were purely cosmetic. That's where the front nose clip and rear diffuser changed and updated to look sportier as well as the more fluid looking forged wheels that were also available as an option.
And with the series of new upgrade(s), Tesla has labeled this revision a complete major number revision, titled: Roadster 3.0
No new Roadster was made as the Verge mistakenly titled in their article.
But really the revisioning doesn't make sense anymore, since its a cosmetic but functional component (the areo kit), a mechanical part for that there'll be a bearing as well as appears to be a braking component offered as an upgrade. And then the complete change in the cells used in the Roadster pack. The latter is the only part I can see them turning a complete number of a revision. But even that is odd. Right now it appears Tesla is using the revision numbers as just indicating some sort of change was done. Ignore the major/minor relationship.
A better version name would have been "Roadster Upgrade Package 1.0"
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Agree.
Disagree. The SC connects directly to the pack, bypassing all other electronics. As has been discussed previously a separate Model S charge port with contactors and cables directly to the pack should allow supercharging. Obviously some signaling and interlocks would be needed as well and I don't expect it to happen, but I think it's possible without a complete redesign of anything else in the car.
Nope. Elon went on the record saying the upgrade would allow drivers to do SF to LA (in lieu of supercharging). That's 381 miles and no-one is going to want to run down to zero because a) you'd be in Cannot Calculate for the last 20 odd miles b) you'll trash the pack if done on a regular basis and c) who wants to risk running out in LA?
Elon said:
He's missed off the bit about 45 mph.
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wiztecy
Active Member
Even the news outlets projected it was the pack alone that was going to allow the Roadster to reach the 400 mile number:
Tesla's Roadster will go almost 400 miles on a single charge, according to Elon Musk
"The sporty electric car produced by Elon Musk's company will soon receive an upgrade to the car's battery that will almost double its range, Musk said on Twitter. The Roadster can currently go about 244 miles on a single change. The new update will bump that number up to 400."
I also tried to get some changes done to the Roadster to improve its areo efficiency on this forum. Unfortunately there was zero interest in that, and the design had a sleek race appeal. Mirrors as well as other improvements were suggested. No interests. Even trying to improve safety of the Roadster by redesigning the rotors that will benefit the Roadster in many ways since Carbotechs are not enough for all season driving. . Again, only a handful of interests. I just hope that whatever Tesla does it won't turn this beautiful sexy electric icon into an ugly Mork and Mindy egg vehicle for what the Honda Insight turn out to be:
As for readers saying Roadster owners are spoiled. I have not ever seen that. Its usually a label that gets attached to the Model S owners for that some are inconsiderate of others. Go look at Leaf forums! They call them the Model S drivers Snobs. They document a Model S not charging but just parked in a charge spot. It happens more than once. I don't think I've seen or heard of a Roadster owner doing that. Usually what I do hear about Roadster owners are compliments, usually ones who are very savvy and ahead of the times. I mostly get thanked by people, even homeless people, for making a positive change and also on how beautiful the car is. The brunt of the posts in the Roadster section are typically about making things better and improving upon the existing design, or helping with supporting our own vehicle since Telsa has lost all the Roadster knowledge based infrastructure and talent.
What the discussion here isn't like the Model S discussion when the P85D was released, that my resale value will drop like crazy due to a release of a newer improved vehicle with the latest and greatest technology. What I'm saying is that we didn't get the latest and greatest technology, that's ok, but we also didn't get 400 miles from what I had felt was marketed and presented to the audience as an "Upgrade". It is what it is. My point is that Telsa needs to start clarifying what they're saying. If not then credibility will start taking a toll. I personally don't want that to happen, but it will if its not corrected.
The whole thing does not seem very well thought out. They're still testing the prototype of the areo kit. If that's happening you know they're still doing that to the battery component also.
I don't understand why they just can't just release the add ons first then keep working on the battery to gain more range. Again I want more range since the charge cycles will be higher and life of the battery better in the long run. I really don't want to change the look of my Roadster. I'm down for experimenting but I always want to be able to bring it back to exactly as the same day it was first driven.
There's always the future right!?. So who knows what that holds for the Roadster.
Tesla's Roadster will go almost 400 miles on a single charge, according to Elon Musk
"The sporty electric car produced by Elon Musk's company will soon receive an upgrade to the car's battery that will almost double its range, Musk said on Twitter. The Roadster can currently go about 244 miles on a single change. The new update will bump that number up to 400."
I also tried to get some changes done to the Roadster to improve its areo efficiency on this forum. Unfortunately there was zero interest in that, and the design had a sleek race appeal. Mirrors as well as other improvements were suggested. No interests. Even trying to improve safety of the Roadster by redesigning the rotors that will benefit the Roadster in many ways since Carbotechs are not enough for all season driving. . Again, only a handful of interests. I just hope that whatever Tesla does it won't turn this beautiful sexy electric icon into an ugly Mork and Mindy egg vehicle for what the Honda Insight turn out to be:
As for readers saying Roadster owners are spoiled. I have not ever seen that. Its usually a label that gets attached to the Model S owners for that some are inconsiderate of others. Go look at Leaf forums! They call them the Model S drivers Snobs. They document a Model S not charging but just parked in a charge spot. It happens more than once. I don't think I've seen or heard of a Roadster owner doing that. Usually what I do hear about Roadster owners are compliments, usually ones who are very savvy and ahead of the times. I mostly get thanked by people, even homeless people, for making a positive change and also on how beautiful the car is. The brunt of the posts in the Roadster section are typically about making things better and improving upon the existing design, or helping with supporting our own vehicle since Telsa has lost all the Roadster knowledge based infrastructure and talent.
What the discussion here isn't like the Model S discussion when the P85D was released, that my resale value will drop like crazy due to a release of a newer improved vehicle with the latest and greatest technology. What I'm saying is that we didn't get the latest and greatest technology, that's ok, but we also didn't get 400 miles from what I had felt was marketed and presented to the audience as an "Upgrade". It is what it is. My point is that Telsa needs to start clarifying what they're saying. If not then credibility will start taking a toll. I personally don't want that to happen, but it will if its not corrected.
The whole thing does not seem very well thought out. They're still testing the prototype of the areo kit. If that's happening you know they're still doing that to the battery component also.
I don't understand why they just can't just release the add ons first then keep working on the battery to gain more range. Again I want more range since the charge cycles will be higher and life of the battery better in the long run. I really don't want to change the look of my Roadster. I'm down for experimenting but I always want to be able to bring it back to exactly as the same day it was first driven.
There's always the future right!?. So who knows what that holds for the Roadster.
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dhanson865
Well-Known Member
You might not like the old Insight shell but I'd be happy to drive a Leaf or Prius that looked like a first gen Insight. Heck I'd drive a Model S that had the first gen Insight shape (enlarged to fit the bigger chassis).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Really? So who is doing the pack upgrades and efficiency mods? You really think the people building the more complex S and X don't know how to work on and modify the Roadster?
shrink
Member
Did anyone else notice this wording in the blog? Not sure when it was added but I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the original blog post:
Roadster 3.0 | Blog | Tesla Motors
Roadster 3.0 | Blog | Tesla Motors
I disagree on both.
Even though some signaling, high power switches and development engineering costs may be quite high, the added value of having Supercharging capabilities in the Roadster is unmatchable by any other upgrade. By far.
HPWC adapters from Henry are only valid in the US and UK. There are many Roadsters outside this region. One phase high power chargers are very rare in Europe.
Who really wants to drive 400 miles in the Roadster non-stop? It is much more convenient to be able to drive 200 SC and come back (or continue...)
wiztecy
Active Member
Its more than that, its having more capacity. More capacity has less depth of discharge (DOD). I'd love to have more capacity over the current pack so its easier on the individual cells. Also its not about driving 400 miles in one pop, its being able to use the car without needing to stop at some painful 30amp J1772 charger.
I currently can drive from Santa Cruz up to Sausalito (across the Golden Gate bridge), drive back into San Francisco, drive back to Sausalito, and back home to Santa Cruz in one Range mode charge. However I don't want to be doing Range mode charges all the time, 97% SOC and draining it down to 15-20% SOC. Cells don't like that! I'd rather do an 85% SOC charge and pull it down to 30-35%, note that when doing Range mode charges it informs the user that Range mode is detrimental to the pack, hence the 97% SOC! Same with dropping below 20%. Also as the car degrades its pack, it still becomes useful for commuting. That's the importance that needs to be shown with EVs, that as technology improves so do the cars and they become even better!
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Knowing people who worked on the Roadster since its very beginning I have more insight. However since Tesla has now rotated out most of the the original Roadster employees, Tesla can book smart the ones who're new. But its not the same. I'd rather have the original people working on it, since they are closer to the technology and car.
Listen to all the people taking the Roadsters in for repair at Tesla, its like a foreign object just flashed in from space. Yes you can do areo design off the computer, where I don't know why they're even testing a prototype now unless they really are trying to wring out 400 miles they advertised. But having new people work on a new thing under some crunch time, I've found it not to be the best for the finished product. If you give adequate time to people who're trained well, who have a voice to stop and push out the delivery date since things need to be refined. The product and the end consumer end up in a better situation. Its the one's who don't have patience that don't win, but then they'd complain anyways.
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That's new. Thanks for posting it! With that wording it makes Tesla more of a company supporting the Roadster for the love of the Roadster and what it represents for Tesla and all of its customers. The wording I see there is more than the contractual obligation to update the pack. Great to see!
However, did they go and change it again!? This is what is says now:
The Roadster 3.0 package applies what we've learned in Model S to Roadster. No new Model S battery pack or major range upgrade is expected in the near term.
Interesting point Wiztecy. I recently took my 2.5 in to swap my regular wheels/tires for snows. I also reported that there was (and is) a rattling noise coming from the dash and the windshield wiper spray was weak (as previously reported here). They were very nice (as always), swapped out the tires and tried to fix the spray. The comment from the SC about the noise and the spray was that these are known Roadster issues that have no fix and are not covered by the ESA. I don't think that my original Roadster mechanic (no longer there after working for 4 years) would have responded the same way.
shrink
Member
wiztecy,
Those comments I pointed out are at the bottom of the apparently updated blog - for more context:
Summary
Combining all of these improvements we can achieve a predicted 40-50% improvement on range between the original Roadster and Roadster 3.0. There is a set of speeds and driving conditions where we can confidently drive the Roadster 3.0 over 400 miles. We will be demonstrating this in the real world during a non-stop drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles in the early weeks of 2015.
Appointments for upgrading Roadsters will be taken this spring once the new battery pack finishes safety validation. We are confident that this will not be the last update the Roadster will receive in the many years to come.
Happy Holidays.
Those comments I pointed out are at the bottom of the apparently updated blog - for more context:
Summary
Combining all of these improvements we can achieve a predicted 40-50% improvement on range between the original Roadster and Roadster 3.0. There is a set of speeds and driving conditions where we can confidently drive the Roadster 3.0 over 400 miles. We will be demonstrating this in the real world during a non-stop drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles in the early weeks of 2015.
Appointments for upgrading Roadsters will be taken this spring once the new battery pack finishes safety validation. We are confident that this will not be the last update the Roadster will receive in the many years to come.
Happy Holidays.
wiztecy
Active Member
Gotchya! Thanks Shrink for pointing that out and correcting me. Happy to see its still there. Cool.
Honestly, from all the Tesla employees I've connected with at Menlo Park they always wanted to be thankful to all the Roadster owners from the top down. The employees made it very clear that without those who initially invested and believed in Tesla with the Roadster, there wouldn't be the Tesla as we know it today.
From those statements in the blog I still see the same love exists.
I wonder if by SF to LA actually means Tesla HQ Palo Alto to SpaceX Hawthorne? That's 364 miles and more feasible.
dhrivnak
Active Member
Superchargers are far from being common place. Look at the full build out and put yourself in NE Tennessee. Then try to drive to Pittsburgh (my family) or Southern Mississippi (wife's parents) of Washington DC. None are possible with Supercharging but all are possible with a 400 mile pack.
So yes I want range especially so since my 244 mile pack is down to 210 miles and dropping.
Fabrizio
Member
This is a fairly balanced article about the Roadster 3.0 upgrades. It summarizes many of the points that have been mentioned in this thread:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/12/27/raising-the-roof-tesla-opens-the-era-of-the-upgradeable-car/
But this article may hint as to the underlying reason for Tesla to provide upgrades to a car that it no longer produces:
http://247wallst.com/autos/2014/12/27/why-teslas-short-interest-is-rising/
As the market for lower priced EV's becomes crowded with offerings from major manufacturers, Tesla can separate itself from the others by offering continuous upgrades that keep pace with evolving technology.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/12/27/raising-the-roof-tesla-opens-the-era-of-the-upgradeable-car/
But this article may hint as to the underlying reason for Tesla to provide upgrades to a car that it no longer produces:
http://247wallst.com/autos/2014/12/27/why-teslas-short-interest-is-rising/
As the market for lower priced EV's becomes crowded with offerings from major manufacturers, Tesla can separate itself from the others by offering continuous upgrades that keep pace with evolving technology.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
As you say they are gone, so what is Tesla supposed to do, not do the upgrade?
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say here, but the people at your local service center are not the ones doing this upgrade design. My guess is JB Straubel was very much involved, and he should know quite a bit about the Roadster design, as should Elon. Nothing that is being done is all that complicated anyway.
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