Peter Gruber is probably the safest choice - he's done many more of these than probably anyone except Tesla (I'm not even Tesla do them) but if I have to do mine again I would love to try 1mm Aluminium Nitrate just to see what happens with the temperatures because it has such wonderful thermal characteristics. (and it's considerably less brittle than Alumina) Peter Gruber is the safe bet though...
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Peter Gruber is probably the safest choice - he's done many more of these than probably anyone except Tesla (I'm not even Tesla do them) but if I have to do mine again I would love to try 1mm Aluminium Nitrate just to see what happens with the temperatures because it has such wonderful thermal characteristics. (and it's considerably less brittle than Alumina) Peter Gruber is the safe bet though...
thefortunes
Active Member
As bad as those pictures look, I don't see anything there that makes me think it is unrepairable.
The IGBTs are easily replaceable (we had to replace one on another board) and the heat sink can be resurfaced if necessary. Hopefully the traces are ok.
Yet another justification for proactively replacing the insulation prior to its deterioration. This can happen to any of us!
supersnoop
Tesla Roadster #334
Is this board the same in 1.5 PEM’s as it is in the 2.x cars? I don’t think I’ve seen any 1.5’s that require repair.
Although it looks bad there is nothing too dramatic here - again it is the failure of the insulation that has caused this...change out the IGBT's - as the fortunes said resurface the aluminium heat sink - you probably need to find some aluminium epoxy mix or some such to do this with - not entirely sure but certainly not rocket science....I know Daniel has some IGBT's left - maybe he is willing to sell them to you? You will be underway again without any problem... however It certainly looks like its gone with bang...
DanielFriederich
Member
PEM 1.5 uses other igbts with a slight higher rating in amps. Not sure about the thermal insulation though... Pete Gruber might have an overview if 1.5ers are affected too
My friend is working his magic. It's looking a lot better now. 5 transistors are toast, but will probably change all on this card. He asked if the print cards are coated with clear coat spray? anyone know anything about that?
Will also need to fill this somehow, tips are appreciated
I should also have a package coming in the mail from Germany tomorrow with the new ceramic strips
Will also need to fill this somehow, tips are appreciated
I should also have a package coming in the mail from Germany tomorrow with the new ceramic strips
I have read the boards have conformal coating. This will mean cleaning the traces before soldering, although I assume your friend knows this.
why is everyone using ceramic strips? I understand the thermal conductivity is better but the failure is in the material not the properties is it not? wouldn't it be simpler to find an alternative to the original that is simply a better product. I have been looking around as to what I would use preemptively as the worry of having to spend thousands on a hundred dollar fix worries me.
Flexible Thermally Conductive Adhesive Electrically Insulating Epoxy Low Thermal Expansion Cooling
There are many solutions like this, I use this building my Lebowski type controllers, I'm sure there are other companies out there that essentially have a similar product. Has anyone had the ceramic strips stay intact without further failure?. A combination may just end up causing a heat barrier reducing the strips so its a brave person who ends up trying that. If there were more roadsters north of the boarder I could test out what works but alas I'm going to have to wait till I can move to start playing.
Flexible Thermally Conductive Adhesive Electrically Insulating Epoxy Low Thermal Expansion Cooling
There are many solutions like this, I use this building my Lebowski type controllers, I'm sure there are other companies out there that essentially have a similar product. Has anyone had the ceramic strips stay intact without further failure?. A combination may just end up causing a heat barrier reducing the strips so its a brave person who ends up trying that. If there were more roadsters north of the boarder I could test out what works but alas I'm going to have to wait till I can move to start playing.
You need to insulate the transistors from the heat sink while being able to secure them down as well. A liquid epoxy product under the transistors would make that difficult.
I have 1mm ceramic strips which for the moment seem fine - the 0.63mm strips that I used earlier were not fine. Its important for the IGBT's that they be torqued to 0.8n/m.
Not sure how you would do this with paste, ensuring that the IGBT's are not touching the heat sinks.
Not sure how you would do this with paste, ensuring that the IGBT's are not touching the heat sinks.
I understand the theory of using the torque to ensure the contact area of the IGBT is optimized but with the paste is that no longer a required number. I'm happy to hear the thicker plates work well which means that a solution is easy to come by, could you get away with a thicker plate still, what was the factory clearance for the IGBTs to heatsink. I have not been able to find any of that information.
If you could go for 1.5mm I think it would give a better margin of safety... I have no idea what the factory clearance was but what I do know is the thermic value of the original paste used was probably in the order of 5W/M/˚K...Ceramic is in the order of 25W/M/˚K.
Good idea to proactively do this job...
Good idea to proactively do this job...
To do this proactively you need a reliable fix proven to work, individual results aside it’s not exactly recommended, if you sell the car would you mention you did a DIY fix on a $10,000 part to the prospective new owner?
Porsche had the same issue with a plastic coolant pipe that burst at 40k. The aftermarket repair is an aluminum one. Now you can’t sell a v8 Porsche without having the pipes changed. If you can prove in reasonable numbers the repair works, the repair was done the same by each owner I think it would increase the life and ultimately the resell value as the ‘faulty PEM’ no longer becomes an issue.
Seeing the availability to fix this has changed my mind as to excluding the 2.0 from my list.
Unfortunately there are only a few cars available to prove this fix, making it more important to prove a reliable fix before recommending pro actively pulling a working component.
Porsche had the same issue with a plastic coolant pipe that burst at 40k. The aftermarket repair is an aluminum one. Now you can’t sell a v8 Porsche without having the pipes changed. If you can prove in reasonable numbers the repair works, the repair was done the same by each owner I think it would increase the life and ultimately the resell value as the ‘faulty PEM’ no longer becomes an issue.
Seeing the availability to fix this has changed my mind as to excluding the 2.0 from my list.
Unfortunately there are only a few cars available to prove this fix, making it more important to prove a reliable fix before recommending pro actively pulling a working component.
Similar threads
