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Rumor: HW4 can support up to 13 cameras
- Thread starter diplomat33
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I don’t expect Tesla to make HW4 a free upgrade unless HW3 is deemed inadequate to ever reach mass release.
Hopefully HW4 is physically compatible with HW3 and they allow us to pay a reasonable price for the upgraded hardware. I think if they add a side facing camera in the modules located on the front fenders then it would allow upgrades without physically modifying the car car with new holes. Worst case is they may need to run additional wires from the module to the MCU.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I expect Tesla will continue to upgrade FSD computer (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 999...) for no additional fee since the FSD was pre-paid.
That is why it now costs $12,000.
There are not many reasons to provide a free upgrade to several hundred thousand cars if HW3 is adequate. That’s crazy expensive and will add even more strain to the service centers.
However, one reason they might want to provide free upgrades is to avoid forking their FSD stack into one for HW3 and one for HW4. It might be worth the upfront cost to get everyone to HW4 because having separate stacks could cause the entire project to fail.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I am not knowledgeable about the FSD specialty so I have relied on Tesla info. It said hw2.0 was good enough so I had no reason to believe why not.
Collisions keep on happening so now we got hw3.
Collisions still happen so we will get hw4.
Why stop at 4? Why 4 will be the magic number to perfect the art of Collision Avoidance?
It likely will not stop at 4. However the difference now is HW3 is proving to be close to good enough. If HW4 is significantly better it should at minimum allow FSD to get out of beta. Tesla will likely continue to upgrade the hardware the same way they upgrade other parts of the cars.
Tam
Well-Known Member
HW3 is proving the L5 that Elon Musk has been wishing for is very far away (summon from across the US coast to coast with Tesla Supercharger robo-snake, not just within a few feet in the proximity of your garage).
Instead of the function for cruising getting better, it's getting worse. Worse in capability: Instead of 90mph, it's 80, Instead of 1 safe distance, it is 2. Instead of more fidelity to the speed control, it's all over the place: false slowdowns. Not just traditional phantom breaks but now with other slowdowns that didn't happen with hw2.
Instead of removing the steering wheel, Tesla just removed FSD beta away from AI Addict when he posted his FSD beta driving despite getting zero strikeout (5 strikeouts for suspension).
Elon Musk tweeted claiming to be "free speech absolutist" but now we know it's at the cost of losing your FSD beta.
Tesla fired an employee after he posted driverless tech reviews on YouTube
John Bernal was a Tesla employee who showed FSD Beta to the world on his YouTube channel, AI Addict. He was fired in February.
www.cnbc.com
FSD beta currently has plenty of issues. When I say it’s close I don’t don’t mean it’s close to L5, I mean it’s close to being usable in certain scenarios. I could see Tesla eventually releasing the HW3 version out of beta but with lots of caveats. I think HW4 will be required to get anywhere close to L5. HW5+ will probably be need for L5.HW3 is proving the L5 that Elon Musk has been wishing for is very far away (summon from across the US coast to coast with Tesla Supercharger robo-snake, not just within a few feet in the proximity of your garage).
Instead of the function for cruising getting better, it's getting worse. Worse in capability: Instead of 90mph, it's 80, Instead of 1 safe distance, it is 2. Instead of more fidelity to the speed control, it's all over the place: false slowdowns. Not just traditional phantom breaks but now with other slowdowns that didn't happen with hw2.
Instead of removing the steering wheel, Tesla just removed FSD beta away from AI Addict when he posted his FSD beta driving despite getting zero strikeout (5 strikeouts for suspension).
Elon Musk tweeted claiming to be "free speech absolutist" but now we know it's at the cost of losing your FSD beta.
Tesla fired an employee after he posted driverless tech reviews on YouTube
John Bernal was a Tesla employee who showed FSD Beta to the world on his YouTube channel, AI Addict. He was fired in February.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There continues to be no evidence it IS adequate though.
That too. Though historical evidence from HW1.x and 2.x suggest they largely abandon significant updates to old driving computer stacks before terribly long.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
What BS.
As an internet service provider - ISP - he said he was a free speech absolutist and won't censor internet traffic. Just like none of the ISPs in the US do.
That doesn't mean the employees can leak internal company information or steal IP.
I would expect that as HW4 is nearing release, FSD will be defined as whatever HW3 will be capable of and be written of as "complete", with Tesla and it's defenders saying "point to where explicit legally-bound promises Tesla is not meeting." Then HW4 will be sold as "L5 vision"* or something.
* no actual L5 capabilities implied
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Again you can't retroactively redefine what you sold someone after the fact.
They sold me a system that is at least L4, which HW3 absolutely will never be capable of.
Now if the retrofits required to actually deliver L4 are prohibitively expensive they might decide to refund me instead, but what they won't, and legally can't, do is deliver far less than what was promised and say they kept their promise.
(And obviously the promise was quite different to those who bought FSD after March 2019 so YMMV there)
Here you go.
You didn't circle the weasel words printed in bold: "Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon software validation and regulatory approval...". That software validation may never happen with HW3, so... obligations met! I'm still waiting for AP1 to find me "anywhere on my property" when I summon it.
I honestly wish you all the best of luck. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just see a lot of wishful thinking that history doesn't support.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
"weasel" word is to say they can't gaurantee when the functionality will actually come. Not whether it will come at all.
Of course, Tesla can indefinitely postpone saying they are still validating software - but, at the same time they can't provide that feature for cars with HW4 and not HW3. They will have to upgrade to HW4.
Anyway, all this applies to FSD bought before some cut off (3/19/19 ?). After that they changed the feature set on order page.
That is why I keep saying it is better for them to just refund FSD partly for people who bought before 3/19/19.
LOL. They will do nothing of that sort. They will deliver city navigation and thats it.
You think $12k is a lot because you haven't looked at what other OEMs charge for even a small fraction of FSD functionality.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Nope.
If they deliver that functionality with ANY hardware the contract requires them to either upgrade me to that HW or give me the $ back since it assured me my vehicle will have the HW capable of doing it....
(that's on top of pubic statements from official Tesla reps who've said such buyers would get any HW needed if existing HW was inadequate- though again this is for the pre 3/19 version of FSD I own and might not apply to post 3/19 buyers).
Thusfar they've gone with 'upgrade the HW"- driving computer for all HW2.x owners, and even new cameras for the AP2.0 folks... so either they'll continue to- or they'll reach a point where that no longer makes sense and refund me.
(the regulatory bit is an outright nothingburger-- my state (and half a dozen others) have already approved self driving cars on public roads so there's no obstacle there at all.
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tmoz
S85D, Y LR, ex Prius PiP
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Most other OEMs restrict their less-capable-than-Tesla L2 ADAS systems to higher trims of the model so often you need to spend 15k-25k more to get their L2 ADAS compared to a base model without it.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Depends - anywhere from $15 to $30k, mainly because they don't let you add ADAS features to the lowest trim. Its like Tesla selling you FSD for $5k - but only if you buy Performance. ps : Mind you, some of these features are just what is in basic AP, which you get for free on all Teslas.
Lucid charges $9k for "semi-autonomous" features that will come at an unknown future. No details or timelines.
VanFriscia
Member
What was the change in verbiage after March of 2019?
Interestingly, I couldn't remember exactly when I purchased FSD so I went and looked in my Tesla account - it was 3/13/19, during the sale. However, when I clicked to open the PDF in my account to check the verbiage, I got this:
LOL
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