Cabin camera soon to be required for all AP features?

[unlock]

Some disturbing news for those who value privacy & security. Credit to @jackb22 for bringing this to my attention.

Keep in mind, despite what the fancy note states, Tesla is a data company first so take it with a grain of salt of any promises that the data won't leave your car.

This is how they get you. Start off slow, give the fake toggle off option, let people get used to false sense of privacy/security, then bam... remove the fake toggle switch all together = Now we got you suckers. Text book 101.

Release notes:

The cabin camera above your rearview mirror can now determine driver inattentiveness and provide you with audible alerts, to remind you to keep your eyes on the road when Autopilot is engaged. Camera images do not leave the vehicle itself, which means the system cannot save or transmit information unless you enable data sharing. To change your data settings, tap Controls > Software > Data Sharing on your car's touchscreen. Cabin camera does not perform facial recognition or any other method of identity verification.

This makes me really frustrated, but to be honest it's not surprising that they'd pull this crap.

Look at Genesis and Ford, why not just use a built in infared that scans the eyes like they do? Which can be turned completely off btw. The point being, no pictures or camera involved here...

So for those of you that have been using black tape to cover it, more power to you for valuing your privacy, but there is potential that it may soon come to an end to use any form of AP.

Tesla if you're reading this, know that it will turn a lot of people off and make people shy away leading them to look at other brands.

 

[unlock]

Note:

To be fair I get the whole safety aspect of them wanting to use the cabin camera. I get it, but there are other ways... but oh wait there's no dash. *face palm*

It's pathetic to see some of these news outlets (go figure) trying to make/pump it up like it's some glamorous upgrade. What a way to ignore the right to privacy for those that value it. Just baffles me.

On another note, I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts on where you see this going...

The IONIQ6 N Version sounds a lot more enticing right about now....

 

[Theone8181]

Surely no off option is an invasion of privacy.

 

[Shelburne]

Full disclosure: I'm against any kind of computer assisted driving technology that goes beyond traffic aware cruise control. Right now, full self driving technology is a joke and so is auto steer unless you are on a very straight multi lane highway. So I welcome the idea that a camera is monitoring you when you use this technology. If I were to be in a collision with someone who was using any car manufacturers full safe driving mode, I would want to know whether or not the driver was paying attention in the seconds leading up to the accident. Full self driving mode is not a license to ignore the road and traffic conditions. Perhaps if the cabin camera technology automatically erased all but the most recent minute or so what it records that would keep everyone a bit happier about their privacy.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Not every AP-capable Tesla has a cabin camera, so they’re can’t require the camera for AP features.

 

[unlock]

@Soul Surfer did the news tickle your feelings? How about you contribute and share your thoughts?

 

[unlock]

Full disclosure: I'm against any kind of computer assisted driving technology that goes beyond traffic aware cruise control. Right now, full self driving technology is a joke and so is auto steer unless you are on a very straight multi lane highway. So I welcome the idea that a camera is monitoring you when you use this technology. If I were to be in a collision with someone who was using any car manufacturers full safe driving mode, I would want to know whether or not the driver was paying attention in the seconds leading up to the accident. Full self driving mode is not a license to ignore the road and traffic conditions. Perhaps if the cabin camera technology automatically erased all but the most recent minute or so what it records that would keep everyone a bit happier about their privacy.

Fair point. It'd be nice if there was a way to verify that the data was being stored locally.

My first thought was to piggy back on utilizing the ssd/drive in the glovebox: however, since that drive is accessed by the main system that sends & receives (internet) that wouldn't work.

Maybe if Tesla added another port that is dedicated for only the cabin camera, which is hard wired directly (camera to ssd), it may solve the privacy issue. Like a dash cam + microSD (all local). It'd help if this is something a third party company could verify to confirm that there is no data transmission.

 

[Soul Surfer]

@Soul Surfer did the news tickle your feelings? How about you contribute and share your thoughts?

Not sure how to interpret the post directed at me? I'll take it as a positive one.

To be honest, I'm not surprised that Tesla would disclose this. Faced with the scrutiny of the NHTSA making claims about FSD car crashes and their ironclad EULA (end-user license agreement) protecting them from litigation, I think this is really a means to force the oneness on the driver for attentiveness. My understanding (probably wrong) is that they claim to protect the privacy of the user and will use this through AI to set user alerts.

I'm still reticent to make the leap towards this as I don’t feel that there is enough adoption from other companies, along with historical data at this point. I do get the fear of privacy breaches here, though.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Msjulie]

Interesting turn of events; my camera has had tape on it since it came home Aug 2018. Another reason I guess I have to hold off on updating the firmware

Having to use a camera to watch your eyes/face is disappointing, comes from some hubris that cameras can do everything but also folks that have abused the not-self-driving features, admittedly encouraged to do so by Elon's over promising over the years.

Because too many of us don't take responsibility behind the wheel the majority then ends up depending on tech and rules to try and keep the rest of us safe from those folk.

Too many of these channels

but the title speaks the truth

 

[DopeGhoti]

Fair point. It'd be nice if there was a way to verify that the data was being stored locally.

My first thought was to piggy back on utilizing the ssd/drive in the glovebox: however, since that drive is accessed by the main system that sends & receives (internet) that wouldn't work.

Maybe if Tesla added another port that is dedicated for only the cabin camera, which is hard wired directly (camera to ssd), it may solve the privacy issue. Like a dash cam + microSD (all local). It'd help if this is something a third party company could verify to confirm that there is no data transmission.

The whole point of the notes in the update though are that -- unless you affirmatively enable and opt in to transmitting data to Tesla, the image data are not stored or transmitted. The NN analyses the camera feed and tries to make a determination as to whether you are paying attention, acts accordingly, and the image feed data are then discarded unless you opt to aggregate and send some of those data to Tesla. From the very update notes cited in the OP:

"Camera images do not leave the vehicle itself (emphasis mine), which means the system cannot save or transmit information unless you enable data sharing."

 

[dmurphy]

Scott was right.

"You have zero privacy anyway... get over it." - Scott McNealy, Sun Microsystems CEO, 1999

Sun on Privacy: 'Get Over It'

At the Monday night launch of Sun Microsystems' new Jini technology, CEO Scott McNealy calls consumer privacy a non-issue. The Federal Trade Commission has another view. By Polly Sprenger.

www.wired.com

 

[Bouba]

When you enable data sharing...does that mean Tesla has pictures of our faces?

 

[TomT]

Doesn't bother me in the least... There are FAR more serious privacy violations in our daily lives than this!

 

[Yelobird]

If you fear over every conspiracy theory you will go nowhere. As if they even care to look at you. Umphh. you gave up more data posting on a forum.

 

[Supcom]

People riding around in public surrounded by windows have no realistic expectation of privacy.

 

[Twiglett]

yay - another tinfoil hat fueled paranoid rant.
They MUST be lying to you, because they can.
Tesla are lying to us because they've found a way to monetize all that rampant nose picking, the ransom demands are in the mail

In other shock news - infrared "detectors" are just cameras as well.

 

[Bouba]

yay - another tinfoil hat fueled paranoid rant.
They MUST be lying to you, because they can.
Tesla are lying to us because they've found a way to monetize all that rampant nose picking, the ransom demands are in the mail

In other shock news - infrared "detectors" are just cameras as well.

I’m not interested in Tesla filming me picking my nose...what I say to passing motorists is a different matter

 

[JulienW]

Some disturbing news for those who value privacy & security.....

The first used cell phone was tracked and every single cell phone since that time has been and will be tracked. Also Equifax knows more about you than any other person you know. And we want get into FB and Google. Welcome to Earth.

The irony is the Tesla camera info NEVER leaves the car but THAT is what you are worried about.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

When you enable data sharing...does that mean Tesla has pictures of our faces?

That’s why I keep my finger up my nose to the maximum extent possible while driving.

 

[unlock]

Not sure how to interpret the post directed at me? I'll take it as a positive one.

To be honest, I'm not surprised that Tesla would disclose this. Faced with the scrutiny of the NHTSA making claims about FSD car crashes and their ironclad EULA (end-user license agreement) protecting them from litigation, I think this is really a means to force the oneness on the driver for attentiveness. My understanding (probably wrong) is that they claim to protect the privacy of the user and will use this through AI to set user alerts.

I'm still reticent to make the leap towards this as I don’t feel that there is enough adoption from other companies, along with historical data at this point. I do get the fear of privacy breaches here, though.

What are your thoughts?

Good points and I agree. I do think that Tesla is cornered into utilizing what they have and since they don't have a dash w/ infrared, the only option is to use the cabin camera, which is a means to an end for them to meet regulations/requirements etc..., but by doing so it does cause the issue of privacy concerns despite their claims of no data being sent out.

I can't help but to think phantom braking in the context of, "that darn camera again...."