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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Powell’s reputation was built on 1st Iraq war. But he was adept at lying to help the war machine from Vietnam days.
Colin Powell: Military adviser in Vietnam during My Lai massacre
Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully.
www.vietnamfulldisclosure.org
In other news - when we are not even at war - some people want to suspend the 1st amendment.
Ther’s some who would argue that
Other armies that are 100% volunteer and train like the US does are on par with the US with the quality of individual troops. Among those armies the US has the most first hand combat experience though.
Powell’s reputation was built on 1st Iraq war. But he was adept at lying to help the war machine from Vietnam days.
Colin Powell: Military adviser in Vietnam during My Lai massacre
Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully.
In other news - when we are not even at war - some people want to suspend the 1st amendment.
Powell also admits he got played by the neo-cons who sold him a pack of lies. He was convincing in that hearing because he believed it.
The 1st amendment is a 2 edged sword. When the US is actually at war there are limitations that can be put on free speech, but those limits are not there now. I strongly disagree with some of the people speaking up, but they have a right to say their piece. The rest of the population also has the right to tell them they are on the wrong side of history.
The 1st amendment gives freedom to news organizations to report the news, but I think it's time for a legal definition of what is news and what isn't. Blither that is not based on facts shouldn't be called news. It can be called what it is: opinions about things the speaker thinks are happening, but it's not news.
YES. We have arrived at a point where the extreme application of “free speech” amplified by social media, and the distermediation caused by technology has allowed nefarious parties to weaponize information. The easiest way to see it, is someone today could yell “FIRE” in a crowded theatre and justifications could be used where a significant portion of the populace would say it was their right. There are variants of this across the Western world. It is relevant to Ukraine/Russia because it IS a weapon. I applaud how Ukraine has fought back against this. Others need to do more.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
In a paraphrase of an older quote that some may recognize "Mr Olbermann, have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" We're back at McCarthyism already? The fact that someone is wrong (and T. Carlson and T. Gabbard are 100% wrong; Russia is no friend of any democratic society and the undisputed guilty party in the full affair) does not mean they have to be arrested and condemned without trial for stating their opinion. Hello, that's Putin's approach, 15 years prison for spreading "Fake News". If anything K. Olbermann should be arrested AND given a trial for incitement to violence. Seems were going full force for the Jacobin part of the French revolution these days...
I disagree with B. Sanders on so many issues, but I fully applaud him for publicizing the voices that are getting snuffed in a dictatorship. Let's not do this in US... Okay I'm off my libertarian soap box, feel free to disagree. That is called debate, and a solid republic is based on that... Anyone remembers Lincoln vs Douglas ?
So some can't use their 1st Amendment right to call for the cessation of outright lies by, in the case of Carlson, a pure corrupt propagandist and in the case of Gabbard just such unhinged extremism that she looped from a leftwing extremist to a rightwing one? The Putin supporters should not be arrested but should be labeled for what they are. At some point truth matters. Sad that both have any audience for their insanity.
China is a profile in cowardice and despotism. Let the west shut them off from buying their products and then they can sell all their cheap products to a hollowed out Russia and some third world nations. Also, their zero covid strategy is laughable and emblematic of their approach to solving issues. Who knows, despite all the unnecessary bloodshed and horror, maybe this will be the beginning of the end for Putin and Xi.
1st amendment right does not apply here. That is vs government inhibiting free speech. This is someone asking for violence (government sponsored one) against someone else that they disagree with. That is exactly the story of the french revolution.... That's Robespierre in 21st century. Putin arrests and kills opponents in his kleptocracy, not right of law democracies. And just really fast scanning thru your posts ,I think our disagreement is not vs who is right and who is wrong (it seems we agree on that), but about civilized public debate and what that involves.
You don't experience any sense of irony that you call for the arrest of people who are calling for the arrest of other people? Your right certainly to do so, but I find it hilarious.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I believe the supreme court has ruled numerous times on this and they categorize a very broad swath of communication as "speech".
1 st amendment applies to everyone in US, not just News Organizations.
FCC may have certain rules regarding TV stations etc. And there used to be doctrine of equal time that was gutted a long time back.
Anyway - that is not my point at all.
I'm trying to show how the US government and people aligned with the government use their own propaganda and various other measures to silence critics. It is not just Russia that uses propaganda - NATO does, Ukraine does ....
It is for us to be vigilante and not fall victims of propaganda.
The first amendment specifically mentions freedom of the press as well as individual freedom of speech.
The Fairness Doctrine was gutted during the Reagan administration and the news media has been sliding down hill ever since. But bringing back the Fairness Doctrine that existed from the 30s to the early 80s wouldn't work because it only applied to over the air media (radio and TV) and most media is not over the air anymore. It would have to be retuned for the 21st century.
I don't see the US government trying to silence the critics. It's individuals and groups shouting each other down. In Russia you can get 15 years in prison for just calling the war in Ukraine a war. There are no government penalties for speaking out in the US. Though there are many social penalties for saying various things. Some things people might say will get them fired and shunned, but they won't get arrested. There are some calling for these people to be arrested, but the government will not do it because it is not illegal in this country, just culturally unacceptable to most.
That is the key difference.
Not gonna argue anymore, you're missing the point. It's okay to say that I don't like someone's opinion. It's not okay to say "let's arrest/lynch them because their opinions are wrong". One is debate, the other is incitement to violence which is a crime. It's not relevant to the thread anyways, so I'll not gonna continue on this tangent anymore.
ZachF
Active Member
$30 discount even with oil down below $100 now, on top of large cuts to exports..
We will see if this is an attempt to water down or counter NATO, or just an attempt to lower the temperature.
I have a different opinion but then I am biased
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Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
OT:I have a different opinion but then I am biased
Back in April of '82, I met 4 troopers from 22 SAS who were just returning from a certain deployment in the Falklands (they dropped into the CDN Arbrne School to get their Red Mapleleaf wings).
Hard and hardy lads, I would not bet against them in a fight (nor line up against them). Motivated me to take the SAS PT test back in '84 (just as a lark, you understand). Let me tell you, 24 hrs+ all-go non-stop yomping. It's not the bullets that kill, it's the pace.
Cheers!
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
I wasn’t even thinking Special Forces (that’s a given imoOT:
Back in April of '82, I met 4 troopers from 22 SAS who were just returning from a certain deployment in the Falklands (they dropped into the CDN Arbrne School to get their Red Mapleleaf wings).
Hard and hardy lads, I would not bet against them in a fight (nor line up against them). Motivated me to take the SAS PT test back in '84 (just as a lark, you understand). Let me tell you, 24 hrs+ all-go non-stop yomping. It's not the bullets that kill, it's the pace.
Cheers!
) tbf more the Ghurkas in terms of infantry, Royal Engineers and REME in logistics.I remember driving my Sergeant Major in Op Granby, coming across a broken down humvee with a US soldier next to it under a canopy. We stopped & asked what the problem was his reply “it just cut out won’t start again”, SM “do you want us to have a look I’m a mechanic, he’s an electrician” pointing to me. “ What sort of a mechanic” was the reply ….SM “a vehicle mechanic” ….apparently at that time the US broke the role down to essentially fitter roles, exhaust, carburettor, exhaust etc etc. we worked on anything that moved (or not in my case anything from Challenger to Land rover to motorbike, generators even the Colonels washing machine if asked). We fixed his humvee (loose earth on his battery), swapped a few rations (US ones were better at that time) & got him on his way.
