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State based EV road user charge (Overturned 18/10/23)
- Thread starter jamesgo
- Start date
jason66
Member
How does it work if you travel interstate? This is going to get messy really quickly!
And how do you deal with the backlash from people who live in regional or rural areas who drive a lot more kilometres, often on roads the state doesn't maintain & that are funded separately via council rates.
Those country people in fossil cars currently pay fuel excise regardless, other than primary producers who have a diesel excise rebate. Hence they are alreasy penalised for their distance. Seems we are now penalising those that aim to help the environment. Its just the wrong type of tax.
ICE cars generally get very good range in the country, and atrocious range in stop-start traffic. If the goal of a fuel tax is to regulate the driving that causes the most grief, specifically cars that gulp fuel and spew pollution in denser high traffic areas, fuel excise is kinda reflective of the outcome you want anyway.
A flat per-km rate on EVs would be the exact opposite. It'd punish those who drive very long distances (*ahem* 1200km to 1700km a week) and it'd only slightly affect those who do very short city drives.
If the goal is to reduce the nation's petroleum imports (to stop sending money to our enemies & generally help the balance of payments), the people you want in EVs are those who drive the most vehicle-kilometres, like taxi drivers, uber drivers, and anyone who does long commutes.
If the goal is to reduce local air pollution in congested areas, then any per-km rate needs to be applied to all cars & have a multiplier in certain parts of our cities. And maybe cut the fuel excise in half, rename it the respiratory surcharge (or something like that), and divert the funding directly to the health system.
So broadly speaking, massively increase fuel excise to cover the tax lost by EV’s - once the infrastructure is in place. Maybe the fuel excise increases each year in line with EV uptake.
That's kinda the opposite of what I said. And it'd punish the poor, and the pensioners, who can't afford a new car anyway.
Cutting their fuel excise in half & only charging a token per-km rate everywhere, rising in suburbia, and very high in CBDs and their trendy surrounds (which the poorer members of society rarely or never drive to anyway) would be a benefit to those who can least afford EVs and still be enough of an impost to motivate everyone else.
Or just do nothing. Keep the fuel excise at about the current rate, rename it so it sounds like something health-related, and redirect its revenue to the health budget. That'll stop all the "but muh road funding" argument. Not that it has any merit. Road funding is a state issue, and fuel excise goes to the federal government.
Agree.
This is a pure grab by the SA government. The Fed Govt will give them the same funding wether 1% or 20% of their cars are EV.
Main reasons against this.
1. No similar request for ICE cars despite big improvements in fuel efficiency for your average vehicle over decades.
2. EVs with their gold plated fuel tank (ie. The batteries) already pay $10-20k extra upfront which translates into GST, LCT and State Govt stamp duty
3. The environmental benefit
Moderators note.
New thread created to remove posts from the SA charging thread as requested.
Last edited:
Absolutely. Fuel excise is a federal tax. If anyone wants to make up for the lost tax revenue then it should be the federal government, not the state government. A pathetic excuse. They think all people are stupid.
They will introduce a home solar tax next using the same argument.
Chuq
Active Member
It looks like Labor, Greens and the crossbench intend to vote this one down: Budget jolt goes flat as Labor kills electric car tax - InDaily
Taxing solar was put on the agenda a few months back by our lazy pollies. It didnt go down well, and SA has a massive proportion of rooftop solar. Clearly wasnt a vote winner so it just evaporated
rohan_aus
Member
NSW to follow suit if they get their way: https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/1326797904686829571
@meloccom possible to change thread to NSW and SA with this announcement?
Everyone, please contact your local MP's to get ahead of this, make as much noise as possible:
Tweets:
NSW:
“What? Is NSW also looking at a new tax on electric vehicles @Dom_Perrottet?! Taxing clean cars more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more because they don’t pay tobacco excise. Crazy. @AndrewConstance, , @Matt_KeanMP why tax climate solutions?”
VIC:
“@timpallas is VIC considering a new tax on electric vehicles like SA? Vehicle pollution is the fastest rising source of carbon emissions, and kills more people than car crashes. Can VIC rule this craziness out? @LilyDAmbrosioMP?”
SA:
“Can’t believe @marshall_steven wants to slap a new tax on electric vehicle owners. Taxing people for NOT polluting is just crazy. SA is already 10 years behind the world on electric vehicles. @Corey_Wingard wants to make it worse.”
Phone:
SA:
Energy Minister - Dan Van Holst Pellekaan. - (08) 8226 1300
Transport Minister. - Cory Wingard - (08) 8463 6641
Treasurer. - Rob Lucas - (08) 8226 1866
Premier Steven Marshall - (08) 8226 1866
NSW:
Treasurer Perrottet - (02) 9877 0266
Vic:
Treasurer Pallas - (03) 7005 9474
Email:
SA:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
“Dear Minister van Holst Pellekaan, Minister Wingard, and Treasurer Lucas,
I’m an electric vehicle driver in South Australia and write to register my concern with the proposal to introduce a Road Usage Charge on EVs.
This will make yours the only government in the world introducing new taxes that punish electric vehicles, while the rest of the world actively supports EV uptake.
Governments should be supporting drivers like me who go electric, not singling us out for punishing new taxes.
EVs save lives. Vehicle pollution kills more Australians than car crashes, leading to over 1715 deaths each year across the country, or 115 in South Australia alone. It also has a terrible impact particularly on the health of children, the elderly, and those with respiratory problems.
EVs are the only path to your climate targets. Australia has among the most polluting vehicles in the world and transport is the fastest rising source of carbon pollution. Most EV owners like myself charge from renewable power wherever possible - and South Australia should be proud to have such a high portion of renewables on the grid. Every combustion engine vehicle sold will continue to pollute on our roads for up to 20 years, so if we’re going to tackle climate change and meet the net zero by 2050 target your government has set, we need to shift rapidly to electric vehicles. Your new tax will slow that.
EVs save SA money. The higher the uptake of EVs in South Australia, the lower electricity prices will be for all. More vehicles charging, particularly off-peak, means higher utilisation rates for grid investments, and huge potential to support and stabilise the electricity grid. Electric vehicles also save on healthcare costs, and generate demand for local electricity rather than imported oil.
It’s untrue that electric vehicles do not contribute taxes to pay for roads. In fact, electric vehicle owners often pay more overall tax on their vehicles than equivalent combustion engine vehicles. We pay tax on electricity, and often pay higher rates of GST, Luxury Car Tax, and Stamp Duty than other vehicles because the up-front price premium of electric vehicles means purchase prices are currently higher. What’s more, EVs are not the primary reason for fuel excise reducing; will your government hit hybrid and efficient combustion engines with this new tax too?
If Road Usage Charges are to levied on electric vehicles, those charges should be more than offset by purchase price incentives or stamp duty discounts until EVs reach price parity with internal-combustion vehicles. Any other approach simply punishes electric vehicles and makes South Australia an embarrassing laggard on transport emissions reduction.
Sincerely.”
VIC:
[email protected], [email protected]
“Dear Treasurer Pallas and Minister D’Ambrosio,
I’m an electric vehicle driver and very concerned that Victoria might follow the lead of South Australia in slapping a new tax on driving electric vehicles.
Taxing clean vehicles more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more just because they don’t smoke. It doesn’t make sense.
If Victoria is serious about meeting its net zero by 2050 climate targets, we need to rapidly accelerate electric vehicle uptake - not whack new taxes on them! Victoria is already 10 years behind the pace on electric vehicles, with all our major trading partners like the EU, China, and the US having 4-10x as many electric cars as Victoria. A new tax would slow us down even further, and punish people like me who are already paying more so we can pollute less.
Can you rule out Victoria going down this path?
Thanks”
NSW:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
“Dear Treasurer Perrottet and Ministers Kean and Constance,
I’m an electric vehicle driver and very concerned that NSW might follow the lead of South Australia in trying to slap a new tax on driving electric vehicles.
Taxing clean vehicles more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more just because they don’t smoke. It doesn’t make sense.
If NSW is serious about meeting its net zero by 2050 climate targets, we need to rapidly accelerate electric vehicle uptake - not whack new taxes on them! NSW is already 10 years behind the pace on electric vehicles, with all our major trading partners like the EU, China, and the US having 4-10x as many electric cars. A new tax would slow us down even further, and punish people like me who are already paying more so we can pollute less.
Can you rule out NSW going down this path?”
@meloccom possible to change thread to NSW and SA with this announcement?
Everyone, please contact your local MP's to get ahead of this, make as much noise as possible:
Tweets:
NSW:
“What? Is NSW also looking at a new tax on electric vehicles @Dom_Perrottet?! Taxing clean cars more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more because they don’t pay tobacco excise. Crazy. @AndrewConstance, , @Matt_KeanMP why tax climate solutions?”
VIC:
“@timpallas is VIC considering a new tax on electric vehicles like SA? Vehicle pollution is the fastest rising source of carbon emissions, and kills more people than car crashes. Can VIC rule this craziness out? @LilyDAmbrosioMP?”
SA:
“Can’t believe @marshall_steven wants to slap a new tax on electric vehicle owners. Taxing people for NOT polluting is just crazy. SA is already 10 years behind the world on electric vehicles. @Corey_Wingard wants to make it worse.”
Phone:
SA:
Energy Minister - Dan Van Holst Pellekaan. - (08) 8226 1300
Transport Minister. - Cory Wingard - (08) 8463 6641
Treasurer. - Rob Lucas - (08) 8226 1866
Premier Steven Marshall - (08) 8226 1866
NSW:
Treasurer Perrottet - (02) 9877 0266
Vic:
Treasurer Pallas - (03) 7005 9474
Email:
SA:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
“Dear Minister van Holst Pellekaan, Minister Wingard, and Treasurer Lucas,
I’m an electric vehicle driver in South Australia and write to register my concern with the proposal to introduce a Road Usage Charge on EVs.
This will make yours the only government in the world introducing new taxes that punish electric vehicles, while the rest of the world actively supports EV uptake.
Governments should be supporting drivers like me who go electric, not singling us out for punishing new taxes.
EVs save lives. Vehicle pollution kills more Australians than car crashes, leading to over 1715 deaths each year across the country, or 115 in South Australia alone. It also has a terrible impact particularly on the health of children, the elderly, and those with respiratory problems.
EVs are the only path to your climate targets. Australia has among the most polluting vehicles in the world and transport is the fastest rising source of carbon pollution. Most EV owners like myself charge from renewable power wherever possible - and South Australia should be proud to have such a high portion of renewables on the grid. Every combustion engine vehicle sold will continue to pollute on our roads for up to 20 years, so if we’re going to tackle climate change and meet the net zero by 2050 target your government has set, we need to shift rapidly to electric vehicles. Your new tax will slow that.
EVs save SA money. The higher the uptake of EVs in South Australia, the lower electricity prices will be for all. More vehicles charging, particularly off-peak, means higher utilisation rates for grid investments, and huge potential to support and stabilise the electricity grid. Electric vehicles also save on healthcare costs, and generate demand for local electricity rather than imported oil.
It’s untrue that electric vehicles do not contribute taxes to pay for roads. In fact, electric vehicle owners often pay more overall tax on their vehicles than equivalent combustion engine vehicles. We pay tax on electricity, and often pay higher rates of GST, Luxury Car Tax, and Stamp Duty than other vehicles because the up-front price premium of electric vehicles means purchase prices are currently higher. What’s more, EVs are not the primary reason for fuel excise reducing; will your government hit hybrid and efficient combustion engines with this new tax too?
If Road Usage Charges are to levied on electric vehicles, those charges should be more than offset by purchase price incentives or stamp duty discounts until EVs reach price parity with internal-combustion vehicles. Any other approach simply punishes electric vehicles and makes South Australia an embarrassing laggard on transport emissions reduction.
Sincerely.”
VIC:
[email protected], [email protected]
“Dear Treasurer Pallas and Minister D’Ambrosio,
I’m an electric vehicle driver and very concerned that Victoria might follow the lead of South Australia in slapping a new tax on driving electric vehicles.
Taxing clean vehicles more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more just because they don’t smoke. It doesn’t make sense.
If Victoria is serious about meeting its net zero by 2050 climate targets, we need to rapidly accelerate electric vehicle uptake - not whack new taxes on them! Victoria is already 10 years behind the pace on electric vehicles, with all our major trading partners like the EU, China, and the US having 4-10x as many electric cars as Victoria. A new tax would slow us down even further, and punish people like me who are already paying more so we can pollute less.
Can you rule out Victoria going down this path?
Thanks”
NSW:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
“Dear Treasurer Perrottet and Ministers Kean and Constance,
I’m an electric vehicle driver and very concerned that NSW might follow the lead of South Australia in trying to slap a new tax on driving electric vehicles.
Taxing clean vehicles more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more just because they don’t smoke. It doesn’t make sense.
If NSW is serious about meeting its net zero by 2050 climate targets, we need to rapidly accelerate electric vehicle uptake - not whack new taxes on them! NSW is already 10 years behind the pace on electric vehicles, with all our major trading partners like the EU, China, and the US having 4-10x as many electric cars. A new tax would slow us down even further, and punish people like me who are already paying more so we can pollute less.
Can you rule out NSW going down this path?”
I'd also add that EV drivers have essentially 'prepaid' the levy by buying cars with 24K gold fuel tanks (ie. The expensive and heavy batteries).
This adds $10-20k to the cost versus a comparable vehicle which adds another $1200-$5500 in GST, LCT and stamp duty (allowing for the higher LCT threshold).
Should we ask for a refund of that amount?
This adds $10-20k to the cost versus a comparable vehicle which adds another $1200-$5500 in GST, LCT and stamp duty (allowing for the higher LCT threshold).
Should we ask for a refund of that amount?
AFR today.. "There’s been no major reform of Australia’s inefficient tax system since the GST 20 years ago, which helped pay for incentive-boosting income tax cuts. So credit to the South Australian government for taking the national lead by introducing an Australian-first road user charge for electric vehicles. This is a first step towards the efficient road user charging system recommended by the 2010 Henry tax review and the Productivity Commission."
Fast lane road charging
So i've got nothing wrong with paying taxes but it would be nice to take a holistic view which would include a car registration related carbon tax (eg UK) as the pollution effects of a diesel ute/4wd especially with their heavy weight (weight being the largest cause of road damage) would far exceed a silent electric.
That and the State/Fed Govt is being quite selective with which parts of the 2010 Henry tax review they're implementing, because the same review also recommended the:
Removal of Luxury car tax
Removal of Stamp Duties on the purchase of motor vehicles
But yeah, the funds go to consolidated revenue, not directly to roads, but I guess it's seen as a easy new revenue source.
Fast lane road charging
So i've got nothing wrong with paying taxes but it would be nice to take a holistic view which would include a car registration related carbon tax (eg UK) as the pollution effects of a diesel ute/4wd especially with their heavy weight (weight being the largest cause of road damage) would far exceed a silent electric.
That and the State/Fed Govt is being quite selective with which parts of the 2010 Henry tax review they're implementing, because the same review also recommended the:
Removal of Luxury car tax
Removal of Stamp Duties on the purchase of motor vehicles
But yeah, the funds go to consolidated revenue, not directly to roads, but I guess it's seen as a easy new revenue source.
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