State based EV road user charge (Overturned 18/10/23)

[jamesgo]

So it’s going to be 2.5c per km in Vic and 2c for plug in hybrids.

So we do get a $100 saving in car rego each year admittedly but still, sets a bad message for the environment and once a tax goes in you know it won’t go.

So I guess first 4000 km free.

 

[jamesgo]

Oh and the average person will be charged $260 to $300 per year. So driving 10 to 12k per year??? Like what...

 

[paulp]

So it’s going to be 2.5c per km in Vic and 2c for plug in hybrids.

So we do get a $100 saving in car rego each year admittedly but still, sets a bad message for the environment and once a tax goes in you know it won’t go.

So I guess first 4000 km free.

And then it will become 3c...and keep going up. At some point our tax drunk lazy pollies will work out they can do the same to fossil cars, but because said pollies are self proclaimed environmental warriors they will charge fossil cars double, then claim they are doing great things for the environment

 

[moa999]

So it’s going to be 2.5c per km in Vic and 2c for plug in hybrids.
.

Why not 1c for hybrids, and engine idle vehicles ??
After all they've got "technology" that means they aren't paying as much road tax

 

[ZeeDoktor]

This is absurd. Like @Vostok, I'm not opposed to paying a road use tax, after all roads do need to be built and maintained. However, we paid out our asses to obtain the EVs we drive because we are early adopters, and us doing so yielded a tremendous public good at a very high personal dollar cost: cleaner air. Clean air has a price tag, which is not paid for by ICE drivers.

The only fair, responsible, and reasonable system is to switch ALL vehicles to road tolling, regardless of propulsion system. The fuel excise should still be levied and used to subsidise EV purchase cost and charging networks.

 

[moa999]

Exactly - I'd have no issue with that.
You could reduce the "fuel tax", but instead call it an "environmental levy"
And no tax deductions either.

 

[ZeeDoktor]

Here's my version of the letter (email) I just sent to the NSW MPs at [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected]. Feel free to copy/modify as you see fit.

Dear Treasurer Perrottet and Ministers Kean and Constance,

I’m an electric vehicle owner and very concerned with your singling out electric vehicles for a new tax. You are punishing all of us who are doing the socially and morally responsible thing, and because we are early adopters, we have done so at a huge personal dollar cost.

Taxing clean vehicles because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers just because they don’t smoke. It's a cheap shot at those who are doing the right thing.

All EV owners I know accept that a road use charge will have to be implemented at some point. But the only responsible and reasonable way to do so is by charging all vehicles equally. Then use the fuel excise to subsidise the thus far complete lack of financial incentive to drive cleaner and safer cars.

Your job is to act for the public good, to keep your constituents safe, and to guide all of us towards a better future. We EV owners have literally put our money where our mouth is, and paid tens of thousands of dollars EACH in extra cost (as compared to the ICE versions) for our vehicles just so they won't pollute and because they are safer and contribute to lowering the injury and death toll on our roads. To tax us now for making such a huge financial commitment for the public good is a terrible idea and a huge step back into a mindset of early industrialisation.

 

[doctorwho]

Oh and the average person will be charged $260 to $300 per year. So driving 10 to 12k per year??? Like what...

I live rurally, 40,000km in a non-Covid year. $1,000

 

[Brissienew]

Other countries and planning to ban the sales of petrol and diesel cars, Australia is doing it’s best to discourage the sale of low and zero emission vehicles. Unbelievable.
I thought SA’s Labor party has opposed the idea, but their buddy in Vic obviously thought that’s a good idea. Just waiting for QLD and other states’ to introduce the same now. What a bunch of idiot politicians we have here.

 

[meloccom]

Like many Tesla and other EV owners on this forum, the fact that you arrive somewhere in an electric car will often start conversations about EVs in general. In recent times I’m being told by more and more people that their next car will be electric, and that they’re just waiting for the price to come down.
I think and I hope some politicians will pay a price for such stupidity as uniquely a tax on Electric Vehicles will damage the aspirations of many Australians who see the purchase of an EV for their next vehicle as a way to be on the right side of history in our countries efforts to act on Climate Change.

 

[Candleflame]

Other countries and planning to ban the sales of petrol and diesel cars, Australia is doing it’s best to discourage the sale of low and zero emission vehicles. Unbelievable.
I thought SA’s Labor party has opposed the idea, but their buddy in Vic obviously thought that’s a good idea. Just waiting for QLD and other states’ to introduce the same now. What a bunch of idiot politicians we have here.

Unlikely in QLD imho while the labour party remains in power. They are very pro car and pro driving and pro EVs - bit unusual for a labour party but it is what it is. They are currently subsidizing EV travel around queensland via midspeed DC chargers and are also going to build a dual carriageway going from Gympie to Cairns. ETA 2035 apparently - i believe it when I drive it haha.

 

[jamesgo]

So from my quick rough calc, the lowest taxed is LPG on a per km basis now. The EV charge in Vic works out similar to the Petrol/Diesel rate per km when compared to latest model euros fuel usage.

I've got nothing wrong with paying taxes but you'd think they would try to encourage EV usage.

 

[Candleflame]

So from my quick rough calc, the lowest taxed is LPG on a per km basis now. The EV charge in Vic works out similar to the Petrol/Diesel rate per km when compared to latest model euros fuel usage.

I've got nothing wrong with paying taxes but you'd think they would try to encourage EV usage.

LPG has always been the cheapest by a longshot. The issue is that you either have a small tank where your spare tire goes which doesnt get you very far or a big one in place of your rear seats which means less space and looks crappy.
It was all the rage in the early 2000s in Germany but since then diesels have become more common and are considered to be better, in part because diesel is fairly cheap in middle europe and has become scarily efficient. When Diesel costs 1 euro and LPG costs 55 cents but you use half the amount of diesel then its a crappy proposition.

LPG has the same emissions as petrol and the only reason we get it so cheap is because it doesnt attract fuel tax. If we'd change all cars to lpg it just wouldnt be viable. Also LPG doesnt have the same oomph as petrol. Feels like you are driving an old dieselengine but without lowend torque.

 

[cafz]

So from my quick rough calc, the lowest taxed is LPG on a per km basis now. The EV charge in Vic works out similar to the Petrol/Diesel rate per km when compared to latest model euros fuel usage.

I've got nothing wrong with paying taxes but you'd think they would try to encourage EV usage.

Biodiesel is taxed even less than LPG.

 

[paulp]

LPG has always been the cheapest by a longshot. The issue is that you either have a small tank where your spare tire goes which doesnt get you very far or a big one in place of your rear seats which means less space and looks crappy.
It was all the rage in the early 2000s in Germany but since then diesels have become more common and are considered to be better, in part because diesel is fairly cheap in middle europe and has become scarily efficient. When Diesel costs 1 euro and LPG costs 55 cents but you use half the amount of diesel then its a crappy proposition.

LPG has the same emissions as petrol and the only reason we get it so cheap is because it doesnt attract fuel tax. If we'd change all cars to lpg it just wouldnt be viable. Also LPG doesnt have the same oomph as petrol. Feels like you are driving an old dieselengine but without lowend torque.

LPG isnt the cheapest. My solar filled tesla is by far the cheapest.

 

[ICUDoc]

LPG isnt the cheapest. My solar filled tesla is by far the cheapest.

Not any more....

 

[Candleflame]

LPG isnt the cheapest. My solar filled tesla is by far the cheapest.

You need to build the solar infrastructure first and you cant use solar on long range trips apart from the initial 350km or so. In which case my Tesla is the cheapest because I charge at shopping centres for free and never at home lol.

Thats like saying for the LPG driver that his septic tank provides his daily fuel..........

 

[paulp]

You need to build the solar infrastructure first and you cant use solar on long range trips apart from the initial 350km or so. In which case my Tesla is the cheapest because I charge at shopping centres for free and never at home lol.

Thats like saying for the LPG driver that his septic tank provides his daily fuel..........

I built the solar infrastructure to remove my power bill at home. It came before the tesla. The solar was paid off in two years. But regardless, if you spent the same on solar as a gas conversion it would provide an array to suit my motoring needs.
I dont do distance driving. I dont use anyone elses charger or power. Therefore solar, for me, is way cheaper than any other fuel for driving.
All it costs me to operate my tesla is loss of some rapidly reducing feed in tarrif. ($7.50 for 380km)

 

[Candleflame]

I built the solar infrastructure to remove my power bill at home. It came before the tesla. The solar was paid off in two years. But regardless, if you spent the same on solar as a gas conversion it would provide an array to suit my motoring needs.
I dont do distance driving. I dont use anyone elses charger or power. Therefore solar, for me, is way cheaper than any other fuel for driving.
All it costs me to operate my tesla is loss of some rapidly reducing feed in tarrif. ($7.50 for 380km)

thats good for you, lets get back on topic.

 

[Brissienew]

Unlikely in QLD imho while the labour party remains in power. They are very pro car and pro driving and pro EVs - bit unusual for a labour party but it is what it is. They are currently subsidizing EV travel around queensland via midspeed DC chargers and are also going to build a dual carriageway going from Gympie to Cairns

Perhaps, but if you take the example set by the Vic government. On one hand, they are offering incentives and infrastructure for EV, yet they see good reason to tax EV drivers more for using their car. It’s a confusing message they are sending.
I suppose what they are trying to do is introduce another tax, starting at a low rate, encourage more people to buy EV so they can progressively raise more money when more people are driving EV, and also have the ability to easily raise the tax rate down the tract. Pure money grabbing tactic.