The charge level is set in the main car menu in v11 under charging. It was a separate 'app' previously. For some cars V11 is missing the efficiency display, charts, state of charge graph showing progress to destination, instant vs projected range... all the other stuff that was in that charging & energy app in V10 and prior.
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Safety Score
- Thread starter ScottNY
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
@Knightshade - wide release, but beta… AP on freeway will cross over double yellow and use the wrong double double as the lane line! Just did it to me while in AP yesterday.
Uh...AP is intended for use on divided, controlled access, freeways.
So no place it's intended to be used has double yellow lines with oncoming traffic.
Again, this is user error-operating AP on a road it's explicitly not intended to be used on per the owners manual.
The fact that years later people still get this basic stuff wrong on using wide-release features is a great example of why they choose to limit early testing of unfinished software to a narrow group though.
Sorry, Double double divided access controlled highway 101, nav on AP works areas, all interchange control.
Realistically I use AP all over town if trying to keep a 100 SS. Not as intended obviously but false collision warnings are just that
@Hamilton237 -im aware of all the screens. It was absolutely missing (maybe that wasn’t ‘V11’? 2021.44.6 I think. Last one before my 12v died)
Some argumentative peeps
I'm not upset, where tf did u get that?
what are you reading into shade?
curious about the freeways though, are you saying not all freeways are acceptable? ( I'll test AP anywhere (when alone) because I'm honestly curious what it can and can't do and it is interesting to see when it changes for the worse or better with a revision)
our freeway is split by a 4' median with rumble strip and 2 sets of double yellow. nav on AP finds this completely acceptable. when the median narrows it does not.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
If there's nothing between you and oncoming traffic but a double-yellow line, that's not a divided highway.
"Not as intended obviously but..."
Anything after the but is irrelevant.
Pointing out you keep being upset it does not work right in places it's not intended to work right isn't "argumentative" it's facts.
And as I say a great example of why the FSDBeta isn't available to anybody who wants it.
If it's possible to cross a double yellow into oncoming traffic, you are not on a proper freeway- at least in the US.
The Tesla owners manual states AP is only intended for use on such roads though.
You can turn it on elsewhere- but any errors are on the user since it's not intended for those places.
"Not as intended obviously but..."
Anything after the but is irrelevant.
Pointing out you keep being upset it does not work right in places it's not intended to work right isn't "argumentative" it's facts.
And as I say a great example of why the FSDBeta isn't available to anybody who wants it.
If it's possible to cross a double yellow into oncoming traffic, you are not on a proper freeway- at least in the US.
The Tesla owners manual states AP is only intended for use on such roads though.
You can turn it on elsewhere- but any errors are on the user since it's not intended for those places.
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take a rest, not a 'proper' freeway, but it is a freeway.
maybe wide release only? I'll see myself out of this thread either way
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
take a rest, not a 'proper' freeway, but it is a freeway.
maybe wide release only? I'll see myself out of this thread either way
I mean, it literally is not a freeway per US highway code.
Again- In the United States, a freeway is defined by the US government's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices as a divided highway with full control of access
Divided highway means there's something physically separating the two directions of traffic... (guardrail, grass median, etc)- not just painted lines.
Seeing yourself out is probably better than digging your hole any deeper.
What a crazy world when we blame customers for being confused by this. Tesla makes none of this clear, and it's particularly broken given every single AP feature is in beta, so how is FSD different. So yeah, when Tesla keeps calling it "FSD beta" they are at fault for confusing people. Where does Tesla say it's "FSD beta narrow release"? Heck, we had titles like this in October: "Tesla officially starts its ‘wider release’ of Full Self-Driving Beta in the US"
This is the real key everyone needs to know. You are NEVER owed access to it, no matter what you paid, no matter how "wide it goes.". Tesla is not selling access to features seen in "FSD beta". The only thing they are selling you is city streets autosteer, which has no defined functionality. Tesla can charge you $12K, start sending FSD beta to people that never paid for anything, and as long as someday they put "city streets autosteer" on your car, they are done.
You get people here going "don't worry, you'll get it someday when it goes "wider"" but that's not for sure. When they say Tesla is not selling access to the FSD beta "narrow release", what they really mean is that there is absolutely zero timeframe or feature set they have sold to anyone, so who knows what you will get someday. There is no promise that what Tesla releases "wider" has anything to do with what you see on YouTube videos today. These people tend to see this as totally fine and buyer beware and will belittle anyone that could be so dumb as to believe because you paid $12K for a feature titled "Full Self Driving Capability" that what you will get is the software called "Full Self Driving".
It's also great evidence that Tesla is completely disingenuous and likes the fact that people confuse this, and is not taking safety seriously.
When AP2 first came out in 2017, it WOULD NOT TURN ON when not on an approved road. They have the code to do this. They know what kind of road it is. But then in later 2017, they turned off the automatic limit, and now people like you blame the users and try and use it as evidence about how dumb people are.
Explain why Tesla allows you to turn it on when on "explicitly not intended" roads when they could just block it in code they already have?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That's true- I think the educational system also deserves some blame.
Also the increasingly short attention span of people.
Not understanding the difference between "thing you are buying" and "thing that is not for sale at all but is being tested by a small group" should be a really basic and easy idea- yet somehow people still get confused.
But when you tl;dr everything it's easy to miss details.
Of course they do.
They describe specifically what you are buying when you buy FSD.
"Access to unreleased testing software" is not on the list.
In fact, the primary thing FSDBeta, when ready for wide release, supports--- driving on city streets- is explicitly listed as not currently included but coming later
So Tesla makes it VERY clear if you bother to read.
Which admittedly lots of people don't bother to do. But that's on them.
I think you are not correct, so I'll dig, need to plant plants soon anyways.
We use HDM and CAMUTCD here, we divide ours with double yellows and rumble strips where AADTs are low.
MUTCD in CA is 'special' as I'm sure you are aware since you know everything apparently
. Of course any new design needs to follow current standards but there are still some exemptions as long as Traffic safety & CT is ok with 'talking responsibility' for bad judgment also. but this is not that case even...what say ye?
we have 4 feet with the stripes. I've worked in traffic safety, design, traffic operations and construction.
I accept I could be wrong about anything and like to learn the 'truth'
perhaps your right I'm wrong? doubt it but hey, now I can plant a garden
CA codes are used here BTW
Since I'm enjoying the back and forth...
This is the language from a current user manual (as of the time of this post, 2022 model s) regarding the autosteer feature:
This is the language from a current user manual (as of the time of this post, 2022 model s) regarding the autosteer feature:
The software is not unreleased. Thousands of people have it. Elon tweets about it all the time. Tesla themselves refers to it as "Full Self Driving Beta" when discussing it.
What is the definition of "released"? Are auto wipers "released"? How do I know this as a customer?
Why does FSD have RELEASE NOTES if it is not released?
You really think this is a failure of the education system that people are confused that something which 1,000+ people have, is discussed endlessly, has videos all over the internet is clearly "unreleased" and you have no idea why a reasonable customer could be confused why they aren't getting it when they paid $12K, got their great safety score?
Thanks for ignoring the question of why it's OK that Tesla allows AP on roads they KNOW it should not be used on. Why is everything the customer's fault here when Tesla could easily make all of this clearer and safer?
...at least that does imply not to use it here
...we allow bicycles on just about all of our freeways in Humboldt 
I also love testing it though our construction areas (of course 100% ready to keep my path correct if needed) I think it gives a good idea of what improvements could be made to our construction traffic control delineation. If AP can do it perfect it should be easily navigable by a human.
Not all are, some are a little 'sketchy', fortunately mostly on emergency projects / slides etc.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I think you are not correct, so I'll dig, need to plant plants soon anyways.
We use HDM and CAMUTCD here, we divide ours with double yellows and rumble strips where AADTs are low.
MUTCD in CA is 'special' as I'm sure you are aware since you know everything apparently
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I agree individual states might well define their roads differently than federal code, or even allow grandfathering roads that don't meet current standards at the state level.
I was simply pointing out a 2 foot wide gap with no physical barrier- even if there's double yellows- does not meet the definition of a freeway under federal rules as it is not considered divided- even if CA thinks it is.
AP being intended for controlled access freeways is because it operates on a few assumptions- One of which is "all traffic in any lane you can reach is going the same direction"
A version of AP intended for handling oncoming traffic is being developed and tested under the FSDBeta name of course- but that's not a product in general release yet.
curious where is this written?
CA > Fed standards here. We use CA codes unless feds put in most of the funding. so technically these are freeways and divided. R/W and terrain dictates this area. median barriers would kill your sight distance on some curves & the speed limit would need to be dropped
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
In the AP programming?
It's also the most obvious reason it says it's intended for use on controlled access freeways--- since the most defining characteristics of such roads- federally anyway- are no at-grade intersections, and all traffic in any adjoining lane is going the same direction as you.
It's also why auto-lane change (for the EAP or FSD folks) ALSO cites using it on such roads to change into an adjacent lane- something that is only safe on roads where all adjacent lanes are going the same direction.
it was riding on the double on my side and using the other direction's double as the yellow line, only briefly as I kicked it out of AP pretty fast since cars were coming (still a ways off). Both lines are really fresh too and it was overcast out. In a '16 X loaner I drove, you could use your signal and it would turn the visuals of the solid line to dashed and go across it as if it was a lane line, that has been fixed. I think I complained since that car also kicked out of AP for me once and also turned off power steering assist as well! absolute beast of a car in hills with no power steering...fortunately SC stop was only 10 miles and it reset fine
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
you do understand that the 2' rumble strip is a separation between directions. lanes are not adjoined, roadbed is.
master of the obvious, we have controlled access freeways- hence the name
Except, we don't because "controlled access" has nothing whatsoever to do with lane seperation.
Controlled access means they are free of any at-grade crossings with other roads, railways, or pedestrian paths, which are instead carried by overpasses and underpasses- in practice this generally means the only way on or off the road is via exit and entrance ramps.
Lane dividers don't enter into that.
I think you MEANT divided.... but again a 2 foot rumble strip does not meet the federal definition of a divided highway either. As we already discussed some states have looser definitions here.
EDIT- That's hilarious. He deleted the post I quoted above to correct him, then disagreed with this post correcting him
(I mean, he'd already made a bunch of posts after saying he was "done" with the thread and I'd suggested it was better for him to quit digging his hole deeper, so to be expected I guess....)
Unless that was a VERY late built '16 it would have been AP1, and not at all relevant to this discussion as that's an entirely different system on a slew of levels.
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Ooh look, another term. It's not in "general release yet." Earlier it was "wide release."
Even @Knightshade, the Tesla stock multimillionare, can't decide how to refer to the state of FSD's "release", but it should be obvious to everyone else that if you buy FSD for $12,000, it should be clear that you ARE NOT OWED that thing called FSD because it's clearly not for sale. But he'll hint that it's on it's way to "general release" even though Tesla has said no such thing and has never promised the features seen in the FSD beta to anyone since 2019.
You can also follow all of that up with the clear argument that a subscription to FSD is not the same thing as buying FSD for $12K. Clearly different products, despite identical names and feature sets. Easy to understand, totally logical, only someone failed by the educational system would think otherwise.
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