TM Parts
Teslamotive
It's not a grey area and Tesla can literally file suits against him for enabling supercharging on salvage cars.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
More likely, he could sue Tesla for disabling a feature that was bought and paid for with the car.
HI everyone,
I have a large drive unit from a 2014 Model S p85 that i wish to install in an old jag.
I'm attempting to get it working using an aftermarket motor controller from Advantics who have been assisting with the process.
The motor powers up with 12v and i can read CAN data with a arduino and sparkfun can shield.
Advantics have said that the vehicle control unit (VCU) gets a the CAN data from the motor for battery voltage, if the voltage is ok, it closes contactors and away you go. Unfortunately this is not happening. My multimeter says there is 350v in the pack and i can see volts spike briefly at the motor when contactors close, but they open again within one second. I applied a car battery to the HV terminals of the motor and observing the CAN data, it appeared to read the voltage correctly (11.5v). this suggests the motor can read voltage correctly.
Advantics have said there is a wiring problem, which i dont buy because i get the correct voltage at the motor.
Is there any advice anyone can give me on problem solving this issue ?
I have a large drive unit from a 2014 Model S p85 that i wish to install in an old jag.
I'm attempting to get it working using an aftermarket motor controller from Advantics who have been assisting with the process.
The motor powers up with 12v and i can read CAN data with a arduino and sparkfun can shield.
Advantics have said that the vehicle control unit (VCU) gets a the CAN data from the motor for battery voltage, if the voltage is ok, it closes contactors and away you go. Unfortunately this is not happening. My multimeter says there is 350v in the pack and i can see volts spike briefly at the motor when contactors close, but they open again within one second. I applied a car battery to the HV terminals of the motor and observing the CAN data, it appeared to read the voltage correctly (11.5v). this suggests the motor can read voltage correctly.
Advantics have said there is a wiring problem, which i dont buy because i get the correct voltage at the motor.
Is there any advice anyone can give me on problem solving this issue ?
File suits? Dare I say they could probably put him in prison for quite some time.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
As far as I know, Tesla has not pursued for fraud anybody for using a supercharger with a salvaged vehicle. However, I would think it reasonable to assume that the "lifetime" ends when the car gets a salvage title.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I agree it's a reasonable assumption but don't know if it's accurate. Until the car is sent for scrap or parted out it may not be considered legally "dead".
NiallDarwin
Right to Repair!
I've no knowledge of Advantics stuff but here's my 10 cents:
What battery pack and what contactor setup? My first guess is that there's something wrong in the contactor setup such as no pre charge. If the precharge isn't complete or isn't performed at all there will be a large inrush of current when the main contactors close and the motor controller will freak out, open the contactors again and throw errors.
Also, I feel this is pushing the bounds of the thread title. Maybe look for a better home or start a new one?
Thanks NiallDarwin,
Sorry for pushing the bounds of the this thread, It was my first post and it seemed like the right place. I read through some of the posts buts confess not all.
The problem exists somewhere in a grey zone between my wriring, advantics controller and tesla motor. I was hoping to understand the motor more to eliminate that as an issue. I'll see if i can find somewhere more appropriate, in the meantime though your feedback is appreciated.
It has a 300ohm resister as per advantics instructions as precharge. Original tesla battery pack. It has three contactors, one for negative, one with precharge and one with positive. Ideally, the negative and precharge contactors close, voltage rises, the positive contactor closes and the precharge opens.
Sorry for pushing the bounds of the this thread, It was my first post and it seemed like the right place. I read through some of the posts buts confess not all.
The problem exists somewhere in a grey zone between my wriring, advantics controller and tesla motor. I was hoping to understand the motor more to eliminate that as an issue. I'll see if i can find somewhere more appropriate, in the meantime though your feedback is appreciated.
It has a 300ohm resister as per advantics instructions as precharge. Original tesla battery pack. It has three contactors, one for negative, one with precharge and one with positive. Ideally, the negative and precharge contactors close, voltage rises, the positive contactor closes and the precharge opens.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
This is not correct, per a friend of mine at Tesla (in their legal dept). As all things, it is subject to change, but if the option was sold with the car, Tesla will not pursue you. This person was very clear to me, and said "just don't come to us and expect us to support it on a salvage car".
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
It certainly would make insurance more expensive if salvage ICE cars could no longer get gasoline. It's the old Ship of Theseus conundrum again. How much can you repair and it's still the same car? If you replace all the parts and it's still the same car, what happens if you put all the replaced parts back together again, do you now have TWO of the same car?
I guess with Teslas the answer is "Which car will still Supercharge?" Now who will be the first to get a Rasberry Pi to fake the
-Randy
I guess with Teslas the answer is "Which car will still Supercharge?" Now who will be the first to get a Rasberry Pi to fake the
-Randy
NiallDarwin
Right to Repair!
NiallDarwin
Right to Repair!
Hey no worries re location of post. Its just my feeling and I'm no authority.
Sounds like you understand the precharge idea. Are you able to tell if its working as per the ideal?
To be clear; the Superchargers are effectively dumb devices (12 Model S Gen-2 Chargers in a box). The BMS in the car 100% controls them. So when Tesla disables supercharging on an unsupported vehicle, which is not only salvage, but also grey market cars (when cars are moved out of their home market), they actually reach into your car over the internet connection and change the configuration option to disable it. They are modifying YOUR property without YOUR permission. It would be different if they just weren't delivering power by blocking it on the supercharger side, but no, they alter your car.
If their argument is safety, which of course is valid; then they should offer a free or low-cost high-voltage safety inspection to re-enable it. Supercharging is a paid feature, not unlike upgraded wheels. Them reaching into your car to turn it off, is not unlike Tesla techs showing up in a van in the middle of the night to steal back your upgraded wheels. And the safety argument, especially on a gen2 or newer car is really a tough one, as the car's' diagnostics are so good that any HV (high Voltage) issues would cause a fault alert which would shut down or throttle supercharging to prevent bad things from happening. On Gen1, those cars had non-instrumented HV junction boxes, so it's possible that damage or improper repair in this area could cause a fire during supercharging. (Gen 1 cars are Model S VINs around 30,000 or lower, so not that many cars)
I have worked on over 600 customer cars now and re-enabled supercharging on all of them that have been disabled. I've never had one of them have anything dangerous happen as a result. I work with the owners to assess the condition of the HV system to make sure it's safe to do so.
I have had a handful of customers go though the expensive inspection process only to be told; "Sorry, no supercharging for you", even though the car passed. Now that Tesla has finally agreed to sell parts to unsupported VINs, there is no point paying them for an expensive inspection, as you really don't gain much. (Only that Tesla will agree to preform repairs on your HV system!)
In September Tesla issued this: (Note the last sentence on the first page which says they WILL sell parts, and the last sentence on the second page, which is no Supercharging for you, EVER!)
If their argument is safety, which of course is valid; then they should offer a free or low-cost high-voltage safety inspection to re-enable it. Supercharging is a paid feature, not unlike upgraded wheels. Them reaching into your car to turn it off, is not unlike Tesla techs showing up in a van in the middle of the night to steal back your upgraded wheels. And the safety argument, especially on a gen2 or newer car is really a tough one, as the car's' diagnostics are so good that any HV (high Voltage) issues would cause a fault alert which would shut down or throttle supercharging to prevent bad things from happening. On Gen1, those cars had non-instrumented HV junction boxes, so it's possible that damage or improper repair in this area could cause a fire during supercharging. (Gen 1 cars are Model S VINs around 30,000 or lower, so not that many cars)
I have worked on over 600 customer cars now and re-enabled supercharging on all of them that have been disabled. I've never had one of them have anything dangerous happen as a result. I work with the owners to assess the condition of the HV system to make sure it's safe to do so.
I have had a handful of customers go though the expensive inspection process only to be told; "Sorry, no supercharging for you", even though the car passed. Now that Tesla has finally agreed to sell parts to unsupported VINs, there is no point paying them for an expensive inspection, as you really don't gain much. (Only that Tesla will agree to preform repairs on your HV system!)
In September Tesla issued this: (Note the last sentence on the first page which says they WILL sell parts, and the last sentence on the second page, which is no Supercharging for you, EVER!)
Tesla hasn't bothered to turn off Supercharging or 3g/LTE on salvage cars for at least six months Ingineer.
But don't go waving any red flags in their face or take it in to the SC. And if you pay for recertification they will turn these off. The only thing you get from recert is the privilege of paying them for repairs.
And what's with your pompous sig, anyway?
Several years ago, reporters quoted out of context from this forum, without permission, making it seem like members had opinions that were almost completely opposite their actual opinions. Many of the longer term members took to trying to protect themselves with sigs like Ingineer's.
Incorrect, they turn off Supercharging all the time. I haven't seen them turn off data though in years. I have a fleet of over 600 cars that is monitored so I know when it's turned off. Here's one from yesterday:
Code:
# access-internal-dat.pl 2018-12-10 16:16:59: Teleforce user tzhang changed fastcharge from 1 to 0I definitely tell my customers to avoid the "recert" inspection, as it's beyond useless. Now that Tesla WILL sell parts, regardless of status, there is no reason.
I have a Model X 20017 Salvage car. Everything is fixed but I can't get rid of some errors like suspension and airbag light. The car drives but can't pass inspection this way. Can you root a 2017 rev 8.1? if you can hep I will pay you for your time.
