Samsung building autonomous chip for Tesla?

[diplomat33]

I got a newsletter from Inside Automotive with this paragraph:
Samsung is reportedly building an autonomous driving chip that will be used by Tesla. The electronics company has aggressively been hiring software engineers that specialize in autonomous driving technologies, as it reportedly starts mass production of system-on-chips for Tesla’s Model 3’s autonomous driving features. The production of a self-driving chip by Samsung is interesting, considering previous reports saying Tesla was planning to vertically integrate its autonomous driving capabilities and build its own self-driving chip. Samsung has denied the creation of a new business unit dedicated for self-driving cars. — KOREA HERALD

Here is the line from the Korea Herald article:
"Samsung is reportedly on track to start mass production of system-on-chips for Tesla’s Model 3 slated to be launched in March."
Samsung scouting talents for autonomous driving

So is Tesla ditching their in-house "AP3" chip and going with a chip from Samsung or is Samsung just going to produce the regular autopilot chip and Tesla is still going to make their in house chip for FSD?

Thoughts?

 

[afinegan]

Tesla's in-house battery production is a partnership with panasonic, I don't see anything different

 

[DOCAL]

Could just mean that Tesla is using Samsung's fab to produce the actual chip, but from Tesla's own design.
Tesla could also be using something like a Samsung Exynos as the base design, and putting their own AP modules on top.

 

[minderbinder]

Samsung is likely the foundry (or "fab", as we say in the business) for Tesla's chip. Samsung is a very large company, and they do both chip design and chip fabrication, along with a million other things. The two parts of the company are complete separate, so it wouldn't be unusual for the design part of Samsung to be working on their own self-driving technology while the fab builds Tesla's chips.

As an example, Samsung has been a fab for Apple's iPhone chips at various times, while developing their own cellphone chips. Normal mode of operation for a company like that.

 

[Derek Kessler]

Samsung the conglomerate has subsidiaries. Samsung Electronics, Samsung Heavy Industries, Samsung Life Insurance, and so on. Samsung Electronics has its own subsidiaries, focusing on display, semiconductor, storage, and more. The semiconductor business is the largest in the world, making the Exynos processors used in Samsung mobile devices, Apple's A9 processors, Qualcomm modems, and much more. They have the expertise Tesla would need for the custom SoC and more than enough scale.

 

[gaswalla]

Considering that Samsung helps make iPhones, this sounds totally reasonable

 

[diplomat33]

Thanks guys!! The fact that the article says that the chip is slated to launch in March, does that mean that Tesla is aiming for March to do the FSD upgrade? I think Tesla said Spring but I don't know if we got an exact month yet.

 

[Derek Kessler]

Thanks guys!! The fact that the article says that the chip is slated to launch in March, does that mean that Tesla is aiming for March to do the FSD upgrade? I think Tesla said Spring but I don't know if we got an exact month yet.

Tesla has not said anything about a date for FSD. Ignore any dates Musk offers.

Tesla has said to expect the AP3.0 computer in 2019, but that's it.

 

[acoste]

Tesla doesn't have a foundry so the chip was meant to be manufactured somewhere outside of Tesla. It isn't clear from the article if the partnership is anything more than the hardware. Foundries often help customers in the verification process specially if it is a new technology.

Samsung seems to be interested in autonomous driving business beyond hardware so they may come up with their own solution as well.

 

[zanary]

Thanks guys!! The fact that the article says that the chip is slated to launch in March, does that mean that Tesla is aiming for March to do the FSD upgrade? I think Tesla said Spring but I don't know if we got an exact month yet.

Elon has said that the AP3 computer will be included in all S3X in the spring of 2019, and then those who have already purchased FSD can have the Mobile Service guys do the replacement. I'm this means that around May we'll see AP3 in all new vehicles off the line, and June you can start scheduling AP2/2.5 to AP3 for those who have already purchase FSD with the rangers in the app that is arriving next week.

FSD at that point should increase (my guess is $10K)I and that will also include the AP3 computer.

Early Adopters got the best price, while those who choose not to participate early will have to Pay to Plan

 

[Vitold]

AP3 will be competitive for two years or so. After that Tesla will need to update their system again. It would make a lot of sense if Tesla has struck a deal with Samsung where they get first dibs on future revisions while Samsung gains high profile customer and jump start in the form of AP3 technology, maybe can integrate parts in their phones.

If true - this would be a great development for Tesla.

 

[chillaban]

It’s not unheard of to dual-source foundries for chips. It’s in Tesla’s best interest to not become dependent on any single supplier.

 

[croman]

Are we talking 14nm or what? Also, the tone of Tesla and everyone assumes the design has been taped out and ready for mass production but I wonder why they aren't specifying anything about retrofit timeline vs. new production access to HW3? I have a bad feeling existing owners will get shafted in favor of new customers despite paying thousands years ago for this and the software for FSD.

 

[acoste]

Also, the tone of Tesla and everyone assumes the design has been taped out and ready for mass production

Yes, there are conflicting information here.

Dec 10, 2018
"Samsung is reportedly on track to start mass production of system-on-chips for Tesla’s Model 3 slated to be launched in March. "

2018/08/01
"The chips are up and working, and we have drop-in replacements for S, X and 3, all have been driven in the field,"


If the chip is ready why is Samsung waiting with the production?

I think they only had a prototype so far. Found some issues. Running the verification now and the next run may be the production tape-out. Samsung is waiting for them.

 

[CarlK]

Like others said Tesla designs the AI chip and one of the few foundries will be producing it. Everyone from AMD, Nvidia to Apple and Qualcomm are doing the same. If I have to guess I'd say it will be more likely TSMC that will be producing the chip. Many on the Tesla team were from AMD. They have had good working relationship with TSMC. That does not rule out Samsung of course. Also remember there are a lot other chips in the Tesla car than the AI chip.

 

[CarlK]

Are we talking 14nm or what? Also, the tone of Tesla and everyone assumes the design has been taped out and ready for mass production but I wonder why they aren't specifying anything about retrofit timeline vs. new production access to HW3? I have a bad feeling existing owners will get shafted in favor of new customers despite paying thousands years ago for this and the software for FSD.

What do you mean by shafted? How Tesla is going to announce a timeline when the chip is not even been made? Besides most people did not purchase the FSD. They will not need, and be getting, the new chip. That said I can't see how how Tesla is going to give first chips to current owners and not to put them in new cars. That just defies logistics.

 

[mongo]

AP3 will be competitive for two years or so. After that Tesla will need to update their system again. It would make a lot of sense if Tesla has struck a deal with Samsung where they get first dibs on future revisions while Samsung gains high profile customer and jump start in the form of AP3 technology, maybe can integrate parts in their phones.

If true - this would be a great development for Tesla.

Huh? If AP3 can do FSD, what is there that would need updated? Even when there are multiple companies with FSD, it's not like there is a FSD+ to upgrade to. Cheaper part due to foundary advances maybe...

 

[acoste]

Huh? If AP3 can do FSD, what is there that would need updated? Even when there are multiple companies with FSD, it's not like there is a FSD+ to upgrade to. Cheaper part due to foundary advances maybe...

FSD offers only "a safety level we believe will be at least twice as good as the average human driver". That leaves room for improvement.
Tesla.com Autopilot

 

[Vitold]

Huh? If AP3 can do FSD, what is there that would need updated? Even when there are multiple companies with FSD, it's not like there is a FSD+ to upgrade to. Cheaper part due to foundary advances maybe...

I am pretty sure that as we get closer to FSD we will realize that we need more compute power. Even once FSD is achieved things can be further optimized for power and cost.

 

[strangecosmos]

Thanks guys!! The fact that the article says that the chip is slated to launch in March, does that mean that Tesla is aiming for March to do the FSD upgrade? I think Tesla said Spring but I don't know if we got an exact month yet.

I don’t know about the software, but Tesla is targeting the end of March to have Hardware 3 “ready to go”.

On the Q3 2018 earnings call on October 25, Pete Bannon (Tesla’s Director of Hardware Engineering, formerly a chip designer at Apple) said this:

“Hi, this is Pete Bannon. The Hardware 3 design is continuing to move along. Over the last quarter, we've completed qualification of the silicon, qualification of the board. We started the manufacturing line, qualification of the manufacturing line. We've been validating the provisioning flows in the factory. We built test versions of Model S, X and 3 in the factory to validate all the fit and finish of the parts and all the provisioning flows.​

So we still have a lot of work to do. And the team is doing a great job, and we're still on track to have it ready to go by the end of Q1.”​

End of Q1 means end of March.

On October 16, Elon tweeted:

“~6 months before it is in all new production cars. No change to sensors. This is simple replacement of the Autopilot computer. Will be done free of charge for those who ordered full self-driving.”​

6 months from mid-October is mid-April. But note the “~”.