It sounds worse than it is. As long as you follow the codes in force at the time of permit issuance there aren't too many issues, and the inspectors are well trained.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Santa Clara County retroactively Changing ESS Rules
- Thread starter Vines
- Start date
Man someone's Model 3 is getting a mega door ding on the drivers side if they park in that garage next to the bollards
I put some dense foam pads on my Powerwalls to keep the sharp angle Tesla door from
I don't think the CPUC has contemplated these extra costs for code compliance in their calculations under NEM 3.0. They need to double their cost estimates... it's like 0.5 bollards per kW.
jgleigh
Member
All I'm going to say is that despite these insane regulations, some adventurous drivers will still manage to drive into their Powerwalls. Never underestimate the power of stupid people and automobiles.
Wow, thank you so much @Vines ! Where is that diagram from? Is it specific to San Jose? I'd love to have the whole publication to show the inspector if he/she starts talking about bollards.
And, from the diagram, it looks like even if they did say we need a bollard, it would only have to be 6" away from the PW. Any unnecessary bollard is less than ideal, but I was under the impression that the bollard would have to have 36" between itself and the PWs...which really eats into the space of a garage. At 6", it's more like 18" total from the wall to the end of the bollard - if you count about 6" for the PW, 6" space and then 6" for the bollard...so that's less of a concern than double that amount of space.
Anyway, our garage looks like this, so I think we should be ok and not need a bollard at all, right? (since the return wall is a little over 24")
And even though the site survey guys said "we'll come back next year some time and put in the bollards"...I think if it passes inspection without the bollard, they wouldn't need to "come back next year" and put a bollard in, right?
Now my next concern is whether it's ok to put a powerwall directly on the other side of the wall from the gas input/meter. The gas meter is on the outside of the wall, then a pipe comes through the wall and goes up the wall on the inside and then runs along the ceiling on the inside. Does anyone know if that's a problem?
Thanks again for all your help! It's kind of sad that we have to go to the community of other customers to find out these things...but it sounds like it's a problem that's not unique to Tesla. I think it's a wide spread problem throughout
The diagram is from the upcoming 2022 California Fire Code, it has been adopted as code and will go in effect at the beginning of the year. Here is the draft language:https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/IFC-2021-Group-A-2021-Group-A-Aug-13.pdf (see page 196)
The reason I volunteered my time to help create this code and diagram is that Is aw Santa Clara enforcing what seemed to be ridiculous bollards for garages. They were requiring similar or stronger bollards than what you typically see next to an electrical transformer in a parking lot. It is not appropriate for a private garage, nor is 36" clearance in my opinion.
As far as your actual installation, I am not your inspector. Your garage diagram seems to be compliant with the upcoming code changes with regard to impact protection, but the inspector makes the final call on that based on the codes and their interpretation of them.
Thanks @Vines for volunteering your time and for helping all of us out!
So that California Fire Code will become the document that all the inspectors throughout all of California will reference for what's required? Or is that just the "top level" requirement for all of CA and then each county or city can add on to that to make it more strict?
I don't mean to be selfish, but I'm in San Jose and trying to figure out what applies specifically to SJ...both now and "in the near future" so that I can guide the plans for our installation...which they are working on right now (since we just had our site survey yesterday).
And I know you're not the inspector, but it sounds like you know even more than they do...since you're literally writing the book
I just want to understand the book and how to apply it well enough to make educated statements along the way to guide the process.
So that California Fire Code will become the document that all the inspectors throughout all of California will reference for what's required? Or is that just the "top level" requirement for all of CA and then each county or city can add on to that to make it more strict?
I don't mean to be selfish, but I'm in San Jose and trying to figure out what applies specifically to SJ...both now and "in the near future" so that I can guide the plans for our installation...which they are working on right now (since we just had our site survey yesterday).
And I know you're not the inspector, but it sounds like you know even more than they do...since you're literally writing the book
I just want to understand the book and how to apply it well enough to make educated statements along the way to guide the process.When I saw your post, the problems at Palo Alto come to mind with a particular inspector and the overall process there:
Palo Alto takes heat over solar permitting
Contractors and Palo Alto residents are awash with horror stories about the city's permitting process, whether for solar systems, generators or electric vehicle chargers.
www.paloaltoonline.com
"Coale was one of several contractors who singled out inspector Rhonda Parkhurst, a national expert in electric systems whose passion for imposing requirements that don't exist anywhere else has helped drive contractors out of the city"
Holy crap... a solar powered bollard. Imagine if you needed a bollard to protect the battery on this bollard. Recursive bollards...
Parking Bollard - Solar - Electronic Security Sales
Solar Powered Parking Protector With a quick 6 second up / down time our Solar Powered Parking Protector can be controlled remotely from the comfort of your car. Solar Powered Parking Protectors means there is no need to change batteries. Even cloudy wet days are no issue for Solar Powered...
www.esecuritysales.com
That assessment stands in contrast to the thread title, but I guess you are commenting on the current state of affairs, over 2 years later.
Cheers, Wayne
That statement was in response to BGbreeders statement about generous interpretations and graft with the way SJ chooses to inspect. San Jose Building Inspectors, who are a totally different breed than the Santa Clara County Fire Inspectors.
I personally prefer SJ method because we know and follow the code ahead of time and have the time and manpower to discuss grey areas with inspectors. I can have an ESS and PV permit in 1 hour, with completed CAD plans.
The County of Santa Clara method means the plan check process takes a lot longer, and you still have the same uncertainty in the final inspection, that a rogue inspector makes your life difficult. A permit will take 3 weeks typically to go through the various departments.
@holeydonut That's hilarious
"Excuse me sir, but you're going to need another bollard to protect your solar powered bollard."
"No problem...is it ok if I use this solar powered bollard to protect my other solar powered bollard?"
"Sure, but you're gonna need a bollard to protect it......"
hahaha
By the way, @holeydonut , I think I've seen you comment elsewhere on pw spacing from a gas meter...since you seem to have some understanding in that area, do you think my situation (see above picture) will be ok in relation to the gas meter since it's on the other side of the wall? I don't know if gas meter rules apply only if the powerwalls are on the same side of the wall or if it doesn't matter which side they're on.
"Excuse me sir, but you're going to need another bollard to protect your solar powered bollard."
"No problem...is it ok if I use this solar powered bollard to protect my other solar powered bollard?"
"Sure, but you're gonna need a bollard to protect it......"
hahaha
By the way, @holeydonut , I think I've seen you comment elsewhere on pw spacing from a gas meter...since you seem to have some understanding in that area, do you think my situation (see above picture) will be ok in relation to the gas meter since it's on the other side of the wall? I don't know if gas meter rules apply only if the powerwalls are on the same side of the wall or if it doesn't matter which side they're on.
Local amendments are in the hands of the local AHJ, I will not pretend to know their process. My best guess is San Jose will be reasonable and adopt this portion of the code as written. There was not a huge amount of opposition nor comments about this code.Thanks @Vines for volunteering your time and for helping all of us out!
So that California Fire Code will become the document that all the inspectors throughout all of California will reference for what's required? Or is that just the "top level" requirement for all of CA and then each county or city can add on to that to make it more strict?
I don't mean to be selfish, but I'm in San Jose and trying to figure out what applies specifically to SJ...both now and "in the near future" so that I can guide the plans for our installation...which they are working on right now (since we just had our site survey yesterday).
And I know you're not the inspector, but it sounds like you know even more than they do...since you're literally writing the book
If I was designing a system to be installed early next year (since we are now scheduling for January 2023) I would follow the code I linked and the diagram shown.
I think (hope) my system is going in this year...the site survey guys said that "once I sign off on the design (which I should get within a week of their visit), the installation should be scheduled within 2-3 weeks". So for now (2022), does SJ not have any bollard requirements at all? Or are they already adopting next year's requirements? Sorry for all the questions, and thank you again for all your help!
@holeydonut That's hilarious
"Excuse me sir, but you're going to need another bollard to protect your solar powered bollard."
"No problem...is it ok if I use this solar powered bollard to protect my other solar powered bollard?"
"Sure, but you're gonna need a bollard to protect it......"
hahaha
By the way, @holeydonut , I think I've seen you comment elsewhere on pw spacing from a gas meter...since you seem to have some understanding in that area, do you think my situation (see above picture) will be ok in relation to the gas meter since it's on the other side of the wall? I don't know if gas meter rules apply only if the powerwalls are on the same side of the wall or if it doesn't matter which side they're on.
I couldn't find anything about the actual wall itself or the other side of the wall. I know you cannot penetrate the wall behind the meter or run exterior conduit behind the meter. But having conduit routed within in the wall behind the meter seems ok. And anything that happens on the inside of that wall seems like there is zero care given.
This suggests to me that PG&E is only worried about an explosion of the exterior gas riser / meter. But if your house explodes on the inside; then that's not their problem.
I am by no means a code expert, but a gas meter is very different than a gas pipe. A meter usually has a regulator vent that can release gas. A pipe has no such expected release.
The current code simply says "where ESS are installed and subject to damage, then impact protection must be required" so it's a total judgment call from the inspector.
Code like I provided you would perhaps influence that judgment.
I'd agree with you if the PG&E Greenbook specifies 36" from the meter or the regulator. But the Greenbook always uses the gas riser as the point of reference for the measurement of the safe zone area. Like if you had this setup, you'd still be measuring 36" from the riser out of the ground and not the location of the regulator or the slam shutoff.
Although I wonder if PG&E would say this entire mess didn't comply with their rules since the meter is too far away from the riser. Plus there are no bollards here.
Last edited:
Hi @Vines really helpful stuff. So this goes into affect on Jan 1, 2023?
I noticed in the document you linked to, on page 197, that the area subject to damage to the side of the driving path was both 36" to either side AND 36" deep from the wall (though i didnt see any text mentioning the depth off the back wall). However, in the diagram you posted in this thread, you have a 36" zone to either side with a 24" depth (not 36" depth) to the back wall. Which one is the more current draft?
I'm proposing the following design to Tesla & San Jose...do you think it will fly?
Thx.
YRide
24" is the recent edit. I suspect some jurisdictions might polish it a bit and make it their own.
From what I know this design will be compliant now or January 1, 2023. It seems like a reasonable ask. You will need to provide an interconnected heat detector still unless it already exists.
Similar threads
