Santa Clara County retroactively Changing ESS Rules

[holeydonut]

Yes, I have quoted many different solutions and understand the limitations of the current available technology.

Listed Heat detectors that are wireless are not widely available or at all for many current systems.

For many homes retrofitting a whole wired alarm system is a large expense.

The second generation Nest Protect has a heat sensor; was this still inadequate for code since the alarm is only triggered at the device or phone and not throughout the home?

Learn more about 2nd generation Nest Protect sensors - Google Nest Help

 

[Vines]

The second generation Nest Protect has a heat sensor; was this still inadequate for code since the alarm is only triggered at the device or phone and not throughout the home?

Learn more about 2nd generation Nest Protect sensors - Google Nest Help

I reached out to Nest to confirm already, they are not using a "UL Listed Heat Detector" in their products though it is a heat sensor.

 

[holeydonut]

I reached out to Nest to confirm already, they are not using a "UL Listed Heat Detector" in their products though it is a heat sensor.

Too bad Google screwed the pooch with Nest; I doubt we'll see a Nest Protect 3rd Gen any time soon haha.

I guess the only somewhat-affordable home-solution that is UL 521 is the Honeywell 5800 series wireless sensors and hub kit.

Edit: Nevermind; the Honeywell 5800 gear still needs to be integrated into a Vista system or other integrated solution. Nobody has the appetite to add this type of central control panel option into existing construction.

 

[quitepossibly]

Too bad Google screwed the pooch with Nest; I doubt we'll see a Nest Protect 3rd Gen any time soon haha.

I guess the only somewhat-affordable home-solution that is UL 521 is the Honeywell 5800 series wireless sensors and hub kit.

Edit: Nevermind; the Honeywell 5800 gear still needs to be integrated into a Vista system or other integrated solution. Nobody has the appetite to add this type of central control panel option into existing construction.

The Honeywell Vista alarm panel is most common alarm panel in the US though. If the alarm panel already has wireless devices in it, like wireless contact sensors and/or motion sensors, then you don't even need to add a wireless radio to add that wireless heat detector.

I think most alarm systems install in the last 10 years have some type of wireless expansion capability. For the systems that have that expansion capability, the cost of adding a wireless heat detector in the garage is relatively minor.

If you don't already have one, then your insurance company may soon require you to have one. My insurance company told me flat out that they would not insure me if I didn't have a monitored burglar and fire alarm. My insurance agent told me that a lot of other insurance companies are requiring it now too.

 

[Vines]

Add Campbell and Los Altos hills to the list.

All following the illegal enforcement by SCC fire...sigh

 

[holeydonut]

Add Campbell and Los Altos hills to the list.

All following the illegal enforcement by SCC fire...sigh

Lol, I can't believe all these agencies want to enforce with paperwork, but they don't give homeowners a reasonable way to adhere to the enforcement.

You're right; there are no reasonable solutions to retrofit a home for UL 521 heat detection that sets an alarm off across the entire home. Sure, newer homes probably already have a Honeywell central hub that a UL 521 compliant sensor can be added... but my house was built in the early 90s and I can't find anything that would pull this off without spending thousands.

Luckily I'm in East Bay and it seems they haven't moved to this new standard yet.

 

[Vines]

Lol, I can't believe all these agencies want to enforce with paperwork, but they don't give homeowners a reasonable way to adhere to the enforcement.

You're right; there are no reasonable solutions to retrofit a home for UL 521 heat detection that sets an alarm off across the entire home. Sure, newer homes probably already have a Honeywell central hub that a UL 521 compliant sensor can be added... but my house was built in the early 90s and I can't find anything that would pull this off without spending thousands.

Luckily I'm in East Bay and it seems they haven't moved to this new standard yet.

Looks like the heat detector requirements might be lessened.

Hard to say when the SCC Fire is no longer enforcing California Building Codes, all we can do is submit and wait. We cant even tell our customers what to expect because they AHJ keeps changing the rules.

This is the #1 reason why the rules exist, and are published. Otherwise companies doing business in SCC are exposed to massive risk, since the rules could change at anytime. The CBC and CFC are designed to be revised through an approved process, that way the contractors following the rules have warning as they change.

Now SCC Fire is treating the CBC as if they can home rule without approval through the official process. This is clearly illegal, but who holds enforcers accountable?

 

[miimura]

Somebody needs to start lobbying the Santa Clara County Supervisors about their rogue agency.

 

[Vines]

Also Cupertino confirmed they are enforcing the same...
CAL fire Official interpretation should have been out a month or more ago. In the meantime, this is blowing up.

Homeowners affected should probably bring it up with the county board of supervisors.

Energy storage systems should be encouraged, its crazy to me that you can park a 100 kWh EV in the garage, but more than 20 kWh of ESS triggers the CFC.

Meeting Portal - The County of Santa Clara, California is the link to the schedule online meetings each Tuesday morning. You can also lodge a comment there.

 

[holeydonut]

Also Cupertino confirmed they are enforcing the same...
CAL fire Official interpretation should have been out a month or more ago. In the meantime, this is blowing up.

Homeowners affected should probably bring it up with the county board of supervisors.

Energy storage systems should be encouraged, its crazy to me that you can park a 100 kWh EV in the garage, but more than 20 kWh of ESS triggers the CFC.

Meeting Portal - The County of Santa Clara, California is the link to the schedule online meetings each Tuesday morning. You can also lodge a comment there.

Lol if you bring up the 100 kWh EV concept with them they'll probably require a heat sensor to be built into every EV charging station too.

 

[Janus]

Lol if you bring up the 100 kWh EV concept with them they'll probably require a heat sensor to be built into every EV charging station too.

With that logic, what's the destructive potential of a tank full of gasoline? So maybe the answer is every location in a house that stores dangerous quantities of anything, should require heat sensors.

Also, you can use the recent rolling blackouts to demonstrate the importance of home energy storage.

 

[Waiting]

Let's say your local permitting jurisdiction does approve your two PW installation without any of the spacing spelled out in the new CFC rules, and then your home burns due to any reason, including a brush fire. Is there concern that insurance companies would fail to cover your fire claim when they discover that you had PW installed that were not in compliance with existing CFC rules at the time of installation?

 

[wwhitney]

It could be a concern, if the jurisdiction has formally amended the CFC to remove the exemption for structures built under the CRC, and so your house was subject to the CFC. Jurisdictions that haven't done this but are enforcing the CFC on structures built under the CRC are acting illegally, so I don't think that would affect your insurance.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

It could be a concern, if the jurisdiction has formally amended the CFC to remove the exemption for structures built under the CRC, and so your house was subject to the CFC. Jurisdictions that haven't done this but are enforcing the CFC on structures built under the CRC are acting illegally, so I don't think that would affect your insurance.

Cheers, Wayne

Just as Wayne says, the jurisdictions that are doing this so far are not following the California Building code, which is illegal as California is not a home rule state. It is complicated to know the differences but in effect the fire department is enforcing commercial fire codes inappropriately for R-3 and R-4 occupancies. The CFC section is there to ensure that a permit is pulled above 20 kWh of storage. Those requirements then are either in CRC R327 or CFC 1206 depending on the building occupancy category.

There is no way that an insurance company could fault the homeowner for following the building code. In fact in the scenario you pointed out it actually might force the county to rescind the illegal rules, since it was going to court.

 

[Vines]

Update for all who are following this. The requirements are further evolving. CRC R327 has been finalized and voted on by the CBSC. Santa Rosa Fire is also adopting these new rules.

Santa Clara Fire is no longer requiring interconnected heat detectors, but there still must be a heat detector. Basically for the previous 9 months, the SCC Fire adopted as code the voting draft of R327 from early this year before it was even finished being voted on. This is contrary to California Law, as California is not a home rule state.

Surprise the voting draft that they called Code was voted on and changed. As a result anyone who planned and installed Interconnected heat detectors wasted money and a regular non interconnected unit would have satisfied the code and some Powerwall contracts cancelled over this.

SCC Fire going against the proper process of changing codes caused contractors and customers to waste time and money.

The final version of the code also specifies 40 kWh and 80 kWh limits to energy storage in various areas. So only 2 Powerwalls could be in a basement or interior utility closet, or any interior space of the building envelope, as a third is just over the 40kWh limit.
In a garage or outside on a wall or on a pad on the ground away from the house, the limit is 80 kWh or 5 Powerwalls. Larger installations must be under the CFC 1206, which is quite onerous.

The recent clarification from the OSFM allows any jurisdiction to adopt the new CRC R327 codes early. If jurisdictions start doing this it will be problematic for those looking to stack anything until Tesla releases the new UL Listings. Its ridiculous that SCC Fire did this right in the middle of the biggest need for residential ESS.

The issue is that new R327 codes (officially adopted July 1 2021) reference a UL standard 9540A which Powerwalls (and hardly any other batteries) have not completed testing yet. Therefore the required separation between Powerwalls per the new code is 36" from doors and windows that lead into living space, and 36" away from each other with no stacking kits allowed. Once testing is completed that proves the 10" between units and stacking kits do not allow fires to spread from one unit to the next, those closer distances and stacking kits may be allowed.

 

[SMAlset]

Great of you to continue to update all of us on this fluid situation. While it may not affect everyone, as you mentioned Santa Rosa now was looking to adopt.

I have no idea how long it typically takes labs to perform and evaluate their testing before giving approval but certainly the whole western half of the U.S. with these wildfires likely being more prevalent as time goes on will be impacted by fire codes on battery units. Units 3 feet apart is quite a lot of space to plan for (and many homes in SFBay area are smaller due to sq ft cost of construction and available land space) so hopefully those testing lab results are sooner than later.

Oh and how nice to set the cut off at 40kW on the battery back up, just cutting into Tesla’s 40.5kW for 3 PWs (what we have installed). Kind of like these governments who set rebate incentives low enough to cut off a few of Tesla’s lower cost vehicles. No doubt they are fully aware of the kW rating on what’s out there.

So glad at this point we aren’t in their jurisdiction and will have our install completed and PTO’d soon. Nightmare for others not so lucky though. Glad to hear the wired requirement for the garage heat sensors was modified.

 

[BGbreeder]

Thanks for the updates. As always, a very informative post.

I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck, with no power to alter it. We are in the midst of a planning for an installation in Santa Clara county. The 36" separation requirement would necessitate 40'+ of conduit to get to all the locations for powerwalls, because you end up trying to find ten feet between a pair of windows/doors. Realistically, how many houses have more than one or two locations ten feet between windows and doors? It is more or less a mandate to install on a garage, which may be the intent- do you think?

Any idea on the timeline to UL9540A approval for Powerwalls?

All the best,

BG

 

[Vines]

Thanks for the updates. As always, a very informative post.

I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck, with no power to alter it. We are in the midst of a planning for an installation in Santa Clara county. The 36" separation requirement would necessitate 40'+ of conduit to get to all the locations for powerwalls, because you end up trying to find ten feet between a pair of windows/doors. Realistically, how many houses have more than one or two locations ten feet between windows and doors? It is more or less a mandate to install on a garage, which may be the intent- do you think?

Any idea on the timeline to UL9540A approval for Powerwalls?

All the best,

BG

Exactly how I feel! I have been bending over backwards trying to adhere to these AHJ requirements, and issuing change orders for 6 figure contracts to add heat detectors or move them outside on a massive pour of concrete, arrrgh! Our customers may think we are the ones who are inept, when SCC Fire in truth needed to wait to adopt an agreed on code.

I literally sent SCC Fire an email from the Chief of the OSFM Division of Codes development, who said the interpretation they were using is not the intent of the code. ESS in R-3 residences use the R327 not CFC 1206 for permit requirements. This was back in January, and they refused to believe it, until an "Official interpretation" came out. Finally that is out now.

I recently sent conduit over a roof nearly 120' to get room to install Powerwalls in a compliant location. Most houses will not have this continuous space on a wall. Options are to spread them out, one here, one there, and a lot of conduit. Also important to note that windows and doors that lead into exterior closets, basements, or garages are not living spaces, so maybe that helps?

Most homes will struggle to find this space, and yes the intention is to move them to the garages as much as possible.

As to whether the testing will be better down the road, that is up in the air. I have talked to those Tesla folks responsible and they are working hard as possible on this. I hope to hear some good news by the end of the year but have none to give yet.

 

[SMAlset]

@Vines So did they drop certification on heat rise distance as opposed to heat temp (which can be UL etc rated)? The DCS rep had told me no one in the industry was rating the rise in their devices as there didn’t exist any standards set to measure.

Also curious if still applied retroactively to pending permits. Thought that was so unfair to homeowners and contractors.

Where do these code changes leave you in planning your own home now?

Thanks for the updates. As always, a very informative post.

I feel like I am watching a slow motion train wreck, with no power to alter it. We are in the midst of a planning for an installation in Santa Clara county. The 36" separation requirement would necessitate 40'+ of conduit to get to all the locations for powerwalls, because you end up trying to find ten feet between a pair of windows/doors. Realistically, how many houses have more than one or two locations ten feet between windows and doors? It is more or less a mandate to install on a garage, which may be the intent- do you think?

Any idea on the timeline to UL9540A approval for Powerwalls?

All the best,

BG

@BGbreeder is Santa Clara County Fire your ruling body? They only encompass areas of Santa Clara County that are more mountainous from what I could tell like Los Gatos, parts of Cupertino, think parts of Redwood City, etc. Other cities in Santa Clara County have their own fire jurisdictions.

 

[Vines]

T

@Vines So did they drop certification on heat rise distance as opposed to heat temp (which can be UL etc rated)? The DCS rep had told me no one in the industry was rating the rise in their devices as there didn’t exist any standards set to measure.

The requirement this month is that it is "resettable/testable" heat detector and rated for the environment, either conditioned on non conditioned. If it has rise of rate, that sensor must be resettable. If not then a unit may have to be consumed to test it. Also the alarm must be audible across the house, so they won't define that yet either.

I have a wired stand alone alarm that works for one environment but not the other. Need a wired stand alone alarm for the unconditioned garages.

Who knows what it will be next month, I'm just taking it as it comes.