I know, right?
Still waiting for jeffro01 to correct everything that he mistyped.
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Saw 6 Model Xs in final inspection area on the factory tour today!
- Thread starter ChocoboLee
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I know, right?
Still waiting for jeffro01 to correct everything that he mistyped.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Mods - Perhaps we could start a new thread where people discuss me, rather than topics?
But to your comment directly: Yep, human nature. I've gotten to know a lot of Tesla management, staff, etc. And yes, I consider some friends. What you may see in some of my responses is not empathy as much as knowing the intent vs. how perceived. Like any of us would, I feel a need to try to get folks to see there might be another side. The tendency of some other posters to jump to 'assume bad intent' is sad. I've publicly criticized the company. And I will also publicly support the company, as earned. If you knew me in business, you'd know I have little patience for shoddy companies.
What's important to me about abiding by an NDA? I am honestly surprised by the question and by the number of people implying it should be ignored, because a company 'must not have really meant it'. It's an agreement. I must be truly naive to think things like signed agreements matter. I've signed a number of NDAs in my career and maybe take them more seriously than most. That's MY signature at the end of a document. I've seen people lose jobs over NDA violations. Perhaps that's why I've asked for clarification as to what is or is not confidential information when on a tour. I guess I can see how some take this as 'defending Tesla' to those that ignore NDAs they've signed, but if you knew my career path, you'd recognize why I treat NDAs seriously.
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Again, an NDA isn't between an individual and people who like Tesla. It's between the individual and TESLA. If Tesla has a problem with something that is leaked, THEY'LL do something about it. They don't need a bunch of armchair lawyers doing their work for them.
Not it sure why so many people feel the need to be amateur Tesla enforcers...
This could've been a really cool thread. Instead, it's a bunch of people trying to shut down someone who actually contributed something of substance to this forum.
Not it sure why so many people feel the need to be amateur Tesla enforcers...
This could've been a really cool thread. Instead, it's a bunch of people trying to shut down someone who actually contributed something of substance to this forum.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
At least we're in agreement that the information shared was 'of substance' and not just 'business as usual'.
As for the rest of your post, thank you SO much for clarifying!
Merrill
Merrill
Won't it be nice when we see 6 signatures delivered, then we will have something substantial do agree or disagree about.
At least we're in agreement that the information shared was 'of substance' and not just 'business as usual'.
As for the rest of your post, thank you SO much for clarifying!
+1 Bonnie
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
aija SigX 649
Winged Lion
Yes - the silence over the last few weeks since the launch event has been deafening!
Hate I missed whatever the confidential information was that got divulged earlier in this thread, apparently its removal sparked this rather lengthy NDA discussion?
mknox
Well-Known Member
Nope. The "confidential" info is in Post #1 where the OP reports seeing Model X's on the factory floor. Then it devolved into this whole discussion over whether that revelation in some way violates NDA.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
It's an NDA, not a gag order. It can't be so broad as to prohibit discussion of general observations, or even specifics as long as they are not about proprietary, material information, otherwise it loses its bite.
What is proprietary information? That's up to a judge to decide, but a reasonable case can be made that "I saw X of a car that has already been publicly launched and delivered to customers" can not be proprietary by way of its prior public disclosure. The OP provided no information about Model X production rates.
If the OPs tour had been before the X launch event, then it would have been a very different case.
What is proprietary information? That's up to a judge to decide, but a reasonable case can be made that "I saw X of a car that has already been publicly launched and delivered to customers" can not be proprietary by way of its prior public disclosure. The OP provided no information about Model X production rates.
If the OPs tour had been before the X launch event, then it would have been a very different case.
Seriously? Seeing cars during a tour of the plant where they're produced is confidential? Thought I had missed something interesting that got censored. LOL
Blastphemy
Member
That's a rather dubious assumption that none of us are attorneys.
People who go on factory tours who (i) don't remember signing the NDA, (ii) weren't asked to sign an NDA, or (iii) don't care that they signed an NDA are still going to get excited about things and post their thoughts on this forum. Complaining that their supposed NDA was violated isn't going to change that, and frankly might just instigate others if they're offended by the holier-than-thou protestations of certain members of this forum.
It's up to the person who signs an NDA to decide whether he/she wants to risk a violation that could result in an actionable tort. It's up to Tesla to prosecute him/her if it feels the NDA has been broken and indemnification is warranted. It's up to the owner of this forum to decide whether such a post puts him/her in any sort of jeopardy by leaving it up. I don't see "forum members' opinions of what constitutes a material violation of an NDA" mentioned or implied in any of the foregoing.
beeeerock
Active Member
To gauge just how serious this NDA actually is, ponder for a moment how many people have gone on the tour over the years. How many teens, too young to sign but old enough to know what they're looking at (and smitten with social media)? Old folks, perhaps exhibiting early stages of dementia and happy to talk to anyone who'll listen?
It's a car factory, not a guided tour of Los Alamos in the 60's... "and here is where we're developing the latest nuclear detonator... gather 'round close people, and let the folks in the back get a good look - you can bet the Ruskies would love to see what you're seeing! Ha ha ha!"
If the doors were accidentally left open as the group passed the Model 3 design studio, or an experimental assembly robot (obviously AI-enabled!) grabbed an engineer and beat him to death against the wall in full view of the tour group... you can bet there would be some reminders and explanation of what was in the NDA, along with some veiled threats about "we could show you more, but then we'd have to kill you - just joking... sort of... ha ha."
I think it's safe to say that the sensitive stuff is safely locked away behind closed doors and retinal scanners - where it should be. Signing on an iPad, without being given a solid explanation of what you're signing and presumably without your signature being notarized or even witnessed (or so I gather), sounds very much like a 'just in case, CYA' move more than a legally-binding document... and probably includes the injury waiver (potentially more valuable!).
I have to believe that Tesla is too smart to intentionally show off anything that would *really* require an NDA, because frankly, once anything gets out that shouldn't, it's too late... prosecuting the offender won't repair the damage.
It's a car factory, not a guided tour of Los Alamos in the 60's... "and here is where we're developing the latest nuclear detonator... gather 'round close people, and let the folks in the back get a good look - you can bet the Ruskies would love to see what you're seeing! Ha ha ha!"
If the doors were accidentally left open as the group passed the Model 3 design studio, or an experimental assembly robot (obviously AI-enabled!) grabbed an engineer and beat him to death against the wall in full view of the tour group... you can bet there would be some reminders and explanation of what was in the NDA, along with some veiled threats about "we could show you more, but then we'd have to kill you - just joking... sort of... ha ha."
I think it's safe to say that the sensitive stuff is safely locked away behind closed doors and retinal scanners - where it should be. Signing on an iPad, without being given a solid explanation of what you're signing and presumably without your signature being notarized or even witnessed (or so I gather), sounds very much like a 'just in case, CYA' move more than a legally-binding document... and probably includes the injury waiver (potentially more valuable!).
I have to believe that Tesla is too smart to intentionally show off anything that would *really* require an NDA, because frankly, once anything gets out that shouldn't, it's too late... prosecuting the offender won't repair the damage.
I think this sums things up nicely. The car had been launched, deliveries already made.
Even if not the case... it is possible that data that has seemingly huge relevance may in fact have none and it is simply a by-product of the interpretation of the over-analytical -theorizing-postulating-beings who hang out on an internet car forum. :biggrin:
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Mods - Perhaps we could start a new thread where people discuss me, rather than topics?
Now that could be fun, but I'd rather discuss your Model X, once you have gotten it :wink:
And by the way, calling the Mods? - I thought you used to be one of them?
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But in all fairness, you replied to part of my posting, even highlighting part of it. Yet your answer doesn't relate to that at all. I never said one shouldn't abide by an NDA or that it should be ignored. I asked why the whole matter seems to mean so much to you personally. A question you have already answered by now. And thank you for the insight by the way, I assumed as much (that you have connections with Tesla staff, even calling some friends, I mean. I can't say the same for any German automaker currently by the way - although I used to know someone who worked in the BMW design department many years ago and he was a close friend too).
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ROFL
Thank you, that just made my morning :biggrin:
That sounded just like a possible scene straight out of a Simpsons episode (Matt, you listening? ;-) )
hill
high fiber member
I'd hate to be in PA waiting for a test drive. One of the perks of So Cal in this case will be that test car deliveries "should" head our way somewhere close to the front of the line. (hopefully)
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Page 1: I saw Model X at the factory!
Page 2-8: NDA this NDA that.
Why did I read this thread
Alien visitors from other worlds have less restrictive NDAs to sign for those who have been abducted...
Why not mention seeing Model X? It's not like you saw a Model 3 prototype or new roadster or some non-disclosed product. They're "supposed to" be making Model X by now.
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aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Reporting seeing the Model X in production would not be a violation. Reporting on the ratio and/or number of cars could be. The later could be used to infer something not disclosed (ie the production volume or readiness of the Model X).
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