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Saw 6 Model Xs in final inspection area on the factory tour today!

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There is typically a clause to this exact effect in pretty much every NDA I've ever signed. Let me skim through one and grab a snippet...

This is my experience as well on dozens of NDAs. Obviously, if something is public knowledge, you can't expect someone to not disclose it. It's public knowledge that Tesla is building the Model X at that location. In the recent Shareholder's Letter, it's confirmed they've "launched Model X on its own new robotic body line." In the Earnings Call, Musk notes: "we expect to reach the production rate of several hundred per week next month." Most importantly, they delivered Founders cars made at that factory over a month ago. So, we know they've already put the Model X through final inspection before.

Don't get me wrong. Visitors should respect the NDA for confidential non-public information they might see (e.g. new Autopilot hardware, a sketch of the Model 3). To those who think this was a violation of the NDA, I ask: What exactly have you learned from this disclosure that isn't already public knowledge? What have you inferred about launch dates, deliveries, or the Model X that you didn't know before? Based on this thread, when will Bonnie take delivery of her X?
 
I'm honestly trying to figure out why people think they sign an NDA before a tour, if it's believed that anything confidential should be hidden from view. What do people think the tour NDA actually covers?

Some of us live under NDAs all the time and they are kind of alien to many others. I've signed so many NDAs in my career I've lost count. Some seemed like CYA NDAs, (ie I wasn't really being shown anything all that proprietary, but they wanted to make sure they were covered in case something slipped through) and other times they were serious NDAs and I'd be looking at serious intellectual property. I also live with a lawyer, so I tend to take contracts seriously as a general rule.

Considering any Tesla owner or someone who has a car in production can get a factory tour with no screening, I think the factory tour NDA falls more under the CYA kind. However, I would be cautious about disclosing anything I saw that was unusual, but then I tend to err on side of caution in legal matters. I've never been sued and I don't ever want to be.

That said, I would not be surprised if Tesla is producing the Model Xs for the stores in NA right now. Possibly some destined for other continents too. Most of the reporters who drove the Model X at the launch were based in North America or worked for an organization large enough to send a reported to California from another continent. There are a lot of news organizations in other countries that would love to run a Model X story, so they may be building some to ship to the marketing people in various countries to loan out to reporters and generally show off the car.

News that 6 Model Xs were seen at the factory on a tour might nudge the stock a little bit, but overall it's not a huge thing. Now news that someone saw a Model 3 somewhere on the factory tour would probably be an NDA violation Tesla may pursue. Especially if someone got pictures. And it is possible there are some Model 3 parts at the factory in some workshop or something. They are probably working on the drivable prototypes now.

My 2 cents...

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I don't see how a whopping total of 6 Model X undergoing final inspections could possibly be material to the value of TSLA shares. We don't even know if these are vehicles going to actual customers. What's material is the production ramp rate and whether Tesla Motors will meet Elon's prediction of hundreds of units built per week by year's end.

Actually we don't know they were newly produced cars. They could have been 6 mules that had some re-work to bring them up to current spec and they were going through re-inspection before going back into testing. If they are doing some tests on almost production ready stuff, they might want the mules to go through as close to the final steps of manufacturing as possible.

They may also have been newly built Sig cars, demo cars, or more Founders cars. It's all just wild speculation. The only actual fact was there were 6 Model Xs in the inspection area at the factory.
 
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The NDA I found online: https://juicedtech.quickbase.com/up/bggw6a6gd/g/rc7/eh/va/Visitor%20Agreement.pdf

During work I have signed multiple similar NDAs, really nothing special here.
And hey, some people are really crazy. Like I have in deed had people taking pictures with their mobile phones from technical documents lying around on my work desk during my work time!
Now that is crazy!

To add a data point from automotive industry:
During a factory tour at Mercedes plant in Rastatt in Germany for the B-class some years ago I have asked the tour guide about the percentage of value creation in Germany versus abroad for that vehicle. I did not really expect the guidue to respond to that question, I just wanted to know that figure. The guide's response was more than 50% value creation was done abroad and that there is not much left during local assembly of the B-class in Rastatt. I have asked if that's some kind of confidential information and the guide said 'no worries, you can share that information'.

To my opinion someone sharing permitted and knowledgable information with other individuals is a very collegial act as long as there are no legal issues.

That's the reason for my personally saying a big thank you to:
- ChoboLee and
- ecarfan
Thank's!
 
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I have taken the factory tour and noted that participants under 18 years old were exempt from signing in (and thus from any NDA). Not sure if this is a loophole, if adults are liable for their children's actions, or ??? If adults are liable for their children's actions, then what happens if a child owns a Tesla and takes the tour him/herself?

While on the tour recently, there were some aspects of production (unique to Tesla) that I thought would be particularly interesting to see. Those aspects were not a part of the tour.

Based on these and other observations: I'm sure the NDA is a barely enforceable CYA. Instead, the tour is structured to avoid anything deemed particularly proprietary.
 
You would be factually wrong based on every NDA I've ever read and signed, and I've read and signed a lot of them over the years due to the nature of the work that I perform from time to time. I don't have the exact verbiage of the Tesla factory tour NDA but when I go on mine next week I'll be sure to read it and correct anything that I've mistyped based on what's in the actual agreement. However, I have never seen an NDA that allows you to disclose what you see simply because the public knew it was there...

Jeff

According to your logic, disclosing the fact that the walls were painted white would be a violation of the NDA?
 
There is typically a clause to this exact effect in pretty much every NDA I've ever signed. Let me skim through one and grab a snippet...

"The Confidentiality of any Information thought to be “confidential” shall terminate if and when the Recipient can document that the information thought to be Confidential: (a) was in the public domain at the time it was communicated to the Recipient by the other party; (b) entered the public domain subsequent to the time it was communicated to the Recipient by the other party through no fault of the Recipient; (c) was in the Recipient’s possession free of any obligation of confidence at the time it was communicated to the Recipient by the other party; (d) was rightfully communicated to the Recipient free of any obligation of confidence subsequent to the time it was communicated to the Recipient by the other party; or (e) was communicated by the other party to an unaffiliated third party free of any obligation of confidence"

(Emphasis added for discussion purposes.) Plenty of exceptions for information that is public knowledge. And this one is pretty typical, in my experience.

What becomes tricky in that clause is who or what determines public domain. I'm a bit jaded with NDAs as most of the facilities I go to, well all actually now that I think about it, don't have such a clause but in all fairness the facilities I go in nothing inside of them is public domain. I hadn't seen that clause in the Tesla NDA until after I gave my viewpoint on it from my experience with NDAs and that clause certainly gives one some latitude and is a bit ambiguous which is interesting by itself.

My problem with people disclosing what they see on a tour is more about my fear and paranoia that someones going to say something that can be used against Tesla in some way by those who are determined to see Tesla fail. Clearly the OP here, and others in the past, were posting things they were excited about, not malicious in any way. Unfortunately the "shorts" are looking for anything they can to pull the company down which is unfortunate, but it's reality. It's from that perspective that my viewpoint comes from.

Jeff
 
I have always asked Tesla whether something I intend to post here is for public knowledge or not, because I have had the experience of the press either a) publishing the content found here, or b) calling me to ask if they can publish the content found here. If the press is interested, you can bet there's probably some material nature to it in some form or fashion.

The safe approach is to assume that everything you saw was for your own personal use and not for public performance.
 
Litmus test: I'm a Tesla enthusiast, owner, and reservation holder but not a direct shareholder. Did this information (6 MXs) make me feel any differently about becoming a shareholder? No.

Just joking, I realize I'm one person. But I certainly would agree that this "breach" is immaterial. Now, if it were posted 9 months ago..
 
I have taken the factory tour and noted that participants under 18 years old were exempt from signing in (and thus from any NDA). Not sure if this is a loophole, if adults are liable for their children's actions, or ??? If adults are liable for their children's actions, then what happens if a child owns a Tesla and takes the tour him/herself?

While on the tour recently, there were some aspects of production (unique to Tesla) that I thought would be particularly interesting to see. Those aspects were not a part of the tour.

Based on these and other observations: I'm sure the NDA is a barely enforceable CYA. Instead, the tour is structured to avoid anything deemed particularly proprietary.

To a large extent children can't enter into legally binding contracts (or they can void them at their discretion if they do sign one), which is what an NDA is. Though there are exceptions to contracts with minors due to court orders or specific state laws addressing specific areas, but in general they can't enter into contracts.

I also believe no state allows people under 18 to own a car, so technically any Teslas bought by minors would be owned by some other person or entity until they are at least 18.

That's probably why they don't have minors sign an NDA. I would expect Tesla to require all minors to be escorted by an adult who is legally responsible for their behavior. I would not be surprised if the NDA signed has a clause like that.
 
Saying you saw 6 Model Xs on the tour is not material information. There is no violation of an NDA since it is commonly available information that Tesla is producing a new model with expected deliveries this year. The fact that you saw those new models during the tour is no different than you posting that you had seen 6 Model S during the tour. They are also known to be produced and would be expected to be visible during a factory tour.

If you would have said "I took the tour and saw the entire manufacturing process and I only counted 6 model Xs the entire time I was there", THAT could be a material statement that someone could have traded on. But the fact is you didn't see everything, you only saw what Tesla allowed you to see, and you didn't state that you only saw 6 total Xs, you just saw 6 finished in a specific area.

Lots of hysterics on TMC......

Hysterics? This is pure comedy