Seems like FSD is a complete crock

[john85775]

Audi's lane keep on the e-tron is terrible. The lane sensors need to both be green to engage it, and when it's on, the "assist" doesn't inspire confidence.

I know we all wait for the grayed out steering wheel to show up on AP, but it has a much lower threshold for engagement.

 

[EVNow]

Musk should let owners buy the parts that work - AP/EAP/NoA rather than a poor subset or Full fantasy!

As soon as other OEMs start offering all the features a la carte.

 

[EVNow]

Audi's lane keep on the e-tron is terrible. The lane sensors need to both be green to engage it, and when it's on, the "assist" doesn't inspire confidence.

I know we all wait for the grayed out steering wheel to show up on AP, but it has a much lower threshold for engagement.

Toyota Sienna we bought recently has lane assist (mostly lane departure warnings) that is terrible as well. It beeps even if you go close to the lane, which happens all the time because of traffic on the other lane etc.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Musk should let owners buy the parts that work - AP/EAP/NoA rather than a poor subset or Full fantasy!

They do now. As far as I'm concerned TACC and Autosteer are the only somewhat useful features and they're included now.
I'm hoping that Autopark becomes useful soon to justify some of the extra money I spent on EAP...

 

[Octo]

My Macan’s lane keep assist isn’t wonderful either but it does what Porsche advertised.

So, does your FSD Tesla pick you up from the Trader Joe’s entrance by itself? REALLY? (as Tesla advertises)?

 

[jebinc]

My Macan’s lane keep assist isn’t wonderful either but it does what Porsche advertised.

So, does your FSD Tesla pick you up from the Trader Joe’s entrance by itself? REALLY? (as Tesla advertises)?

Nope, but perhaps it does for "some" other member's.

 

[john85775]

My Macan’s lane keep assist isn’t wonderful either but it does what Porsche advertised.

So, does your FSD Tesla pick you up from the Trader Joe’s entrance by itself? REALLY? (as Tesla advertises)?

Tesla definitely over promises and under delivers. That said, what they are delivering and the updates that they indeed deliver exceed what Porsche delivers.

 

[Saghost]

They do now. As far as I'm concerned TACC and Autosteer are the only somewhat useful features and they're included now.
I'm hoping that Autopark becomes useful soon to justify some of the extra money I spent on EAP...

When my Raven didn't have FSD loaded, I discovered that changing lanes with a turn signal is actually a rather important part of the AP roadtrip Zen. Breaking out of AP every single time you change lanes for some slower car gets annoying fast and really breaks up the flow.

That's the only feature in FSD that I'd really miss right now, though NoA is useful in the right environment (and I bought this car and FSD for the future and the excitement of being on the cutting edge as new firmware comes out rather than for what it can do today.)

 

[EVNow]

So, does your FSD Tesla pick you up from the Trader Joe’s entrance by itself? REALLY? (as Tesla advertises)?

I don't see where Tesla has advertised "pick you up from the Trader Joe’s entrance by itself".

BTW, when the advanced summon is released, will you take back this statement ?

 

[North75]

Listening to some perspectives on here you would think AP or NOA are so unreliable to the point of being unusable. In reality they are complaining about events that in my experience happen on rare occasions and 95% (or more) of the time the system works great. Why not take advantage of how good it is "most" of the time, and just be prepared that it won't be 100% of the time.

There is definitely an issue with Tesla calling their currently available package FSD. The FSD package contains features that are available today (NOA and Autopark) So "FSD" is working today (in Beta). New customers may not know the history of EAP and what features it previously consisted of. For them if you want NOA and Autopark you need the FSD package. So in the current context to say none of the FSD features have been delivered is incorrect.

I don't think Tesla has specifically said what SAE autonomy level the system will be at when it reaches what they consider "feature complete" I think it's currently level 3 on limited access highways. and will be level 3 when they come out with the ability to recognize stop signs and traffic lights and navigate on local roads. Basically it will attempt to do everything on it's own, but you will need to be able to take over at any time. I think level 4 or 5 are probably off a bit, but I think full level 3 would be awesome.

People who won't be happy until FSD is true SAE level 5 are going to be disappointed for a long while.

 

[jebinc]

I don't see where Tesla has advertised "pick you up from the Trader Joe’s entrance by itself".

BTW, when the advanced summon is released, will you take back this statement ?

@EVNow - Please step back from the Kool-Aide... More seriously, this (see snapshot below) is exactly what Tesla is advertising today. I just logged on and took this snapshot. There's the first section, where the false "Really" representation (implying enhanced summon capability, not regular straight line 25' functionality) is made and the second (bottom) portion that includes year end representations - all for $6000 up front.

 

[iqless]

^^ I like that a lot - it's a clear list of features and a promise on what's happening this year.

Exorbitantly priced, of course.

 

[EVNow]

@EVNow - Please step back from the Kool-Aide... More seriously, this (see snapshot below) is exactly what Tesla is advertising today. I just logged on and took this snapshot. There's the first section, where the false "Really" representation (implying enhanced summon capability, not regular straight line 25' functionality) is made and the second (bottom) portion that includes year end representations - all for $6000 up front.
View attachment 436137

Yes, I know about this mis-statement. They should change it. Really.

BTW, you should see my FC thread to learn how much "kool-aide" I really drink

Tracking FSD Feature Complete

 

[jebinc]

^^ I like that a lot - it's a clear list of features and a promise on what's happening this year.

Exorbitantly priced, of course.

Yes, "...of course..."

 

[scott1002]

It is very much for me as a prospective buyer as a measure of trust with the company. I don't mind being sold some sizzle but I don't want to sold a bill of goods.

My impression when hearing about FSD is that the car could soon go off in the mall, drop me off at the door, find a parking space and return to get met on summon. I thought it could drive highways no trouble and do some limited city driving like inching forward in traffic jams. My wife and I would arrive home at the airport and I'd say to her: "one day rather than getting an Uber, we'll just come have the Tesla pick us up!"

It seems to take a fair amount of research to realize that this stuff aint here, aint coming this year and likely not in the next 2-3 years afterwards. Autonomy day notwithstanding, which I did watch live.

So ultimately when you buy FSD now, the only thing you are really doing is funding R&D and protecting yourself from price increases down the line that Elon's going to cram down should he actually get FSD to work. Rather than constantly have Elon threaten us that it's going to cost more any minute now, he ought to be thanking the bejesus out of me for financing development. (Hey dude, where's my swag?)

I'm not saying that I won't buy FSD now (it's currently in the order) but whereas I used to believe would be growing leaps and bounds in functionality quarter by quarter but I now believe that there's a 50/50 chance I'm not buying much of anything. I guess the bottom line is it's diminished the trust factor regarding both Tesla and Elon before I even make the purchase.

At least I downloaded the user's manual to understand what it really does now.

I wonder about all the poor suckers that buy without doing research like this.

 

[North75]

^^ I like that a lot - it's a clear list of features and a promise on what's happening this year.

Exorbitantly priced, of course.

The proper price is whatever maximizes their profits. If it's overpriced to you, don't buy it.
I wonder if Tesla included FSD in the base price, but all cars were $6000 more expensive would people feel the same way about having paid too much for features that haven't been delivered yet?

 

[Saghost]

Listening to some perspectives on here you would think AP or NOA are so unreliable to the point of being unusable. In reality they are complaining about events that in my experience happen on rare occasions and 95% (or more) of the time the system works great. Why not take advantage of how good it is "most" of the time, and just be prepared that it won't be 100% of the time.

There is definitely an issue with Tesla calling their currently available package FSD. The FSD package contains features that are available today (NOA and Autopark) So "FSD" is working today (in Beta). New customers may not know the history of EAP and what features it previously consisted of. For them if you want NOA and Autopark you need the FSD package. So in the current context to say none of the FSD features have been delivered is incorrect.

I don't think Tesla has specifically said what SAE autonomy level the system will be at when it reaches what they consider "feature complete" I think it's currently level 3 on limited access highways. and will be level 3 when they come out with the ability to recognize stop signs and traffic lights and navigate on local roads. Basically it will attempt to do everything on it's own, but you will need to be able to take over at any time. I think level 4 or 5 are probably off a bit, but I think full level 3 would be awesome.

People who won't be happy until FSD is true SAE level 5 are going to be disappointed for a long while.

Not yet. A level 3 system has to handle anything that could happen in a given driving environment or alert for it several seconds ahead of time.

There's an associated implication that if there's an accident without an alert or immediately after the alert first sounds, the car manufacturer is liable not the human who isn't driving

As one sleepy driver quite famously discovered recently, Tesla hasn't deployed code to handle or alert for road debris yet - up to and including big construction barrels.

I do think they are getting really close to a viable level 3 system for freeways, but it isn't quite there yet.

 

[North75]

Not yet. A level 3 system has to handle anything that could happen in a given driving environment or alert for it several seconds ahead of time.

There's an associated implication that if there's an accident without an alert or immediately after the alert first sounds, the car manufacturer is liable not the human who isn't driving

As one sleepy driver quite famously discovered recently, Tesla hasn't deployed code to handle or alert for road debris yet - up to and including big construction barrels.

I do think they are getting really close to a viable level 3 system for freeways, but it isn't quite there yet.

Is the amount of time that the system needs to give the driver to take over explicitly defined by SAE for level 3.
I've seen descriptions of level 3 state that the driver has to be ready to take over immediately, but I haven't read the actual SAE J0316 text.

 

[Saghost]

It is very much for me as a prospective buyer as a measure of trust with the company. I don't mind being sold some sizzle but I don't want to sold a bill of goods.

My impression when hearing about FSD is that the car could soon go off in the mall, drop me off at the door, find a parking space and return to get met on summon. I thought it could drive highways no trouble and do some limited city driving like inching forward in traffic jams. My wife and I would arrive home at the airport and I'd say to her: "one day rather than getting an Uber, we'll just come have the Tesla pick us up!"

It seems to take a fair amount of research to realize that this stuff aint here, aint coming this year and likely not in the next 2-3 years afterwards. Autonomy day notwithstanding, which I did watch live.

So ultimately when you buy FSD now, the only thing you are really doing is funding R&D and protecting yourself from price increases down the line that Elon's going to cram down should he actually get FSD to work. Rather than constantly have Elon threaten us that it's going to cost more any minute now, he ought to be thanking the bejesus out of me for financing development. (Hey dude, where's my swag?)

I'm not saying that I won't buy FSD now (it's currently in the order) but whereas I used to believe would be growing leaps and bounds in functionality quarter by quarter but I now believe that there's a 50/50 chance I'm not buying much of anything. I guess the bottom line is it's diminished the trust factor regarding both Tesla and Elon before I even make the purchase.

At least I downloaded the user's manual to understand what it really does now.

I wonder about all the poor suckers that buy without doing research like this.

The next couple quarters will be very interesting. Tesla's more or less been in a holding pattern on FSD for the last couple years, waiting for the processor hardware they thought they needed.

That just started going in to cars in April, so now is the time to see if FSD really is right on the horizon like the Autonomy Day event suggested, or if it is several years away like some folks here believe.

 

[Saghost]

Is the amount of time that the system needs to give the driver to take over explicitly defined by SAE for level 3.
I've seen descriptions of level 3 state that the driver has to be ready to take over immediately, but I haven't read the actual SAE J0316 text.

I don't think so, but I'm not completely sure. Certainly I haven't seen a single number quoted repeatedly.