As far as VIN sequence goes, I can tell you from personal experience on low production vehicles that actual build sequence often differs from VIN number sequence. I have ordered and owned two Vipers and both my cars VIN's did not reflect the true build sequence. Personal feelings aside, Martin should not be worried about this as his #2 car will have the value associated with that VIN number no matter what the actual build sequence. Additionally, if he has gotten the FACTORY to provide him a special paint job not available to others his car will be doubly rare. I'm sure he doesn't need to, but he could surely sell his special #2 at a nice profit and then just buy a "regular" one later and be in it for much less than the rest of us. All these issues are most unfortunate, but for me the big picture is still to get an EV and start down the road to hydrocarbon freedom. I know I'm not alone in that desire.
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Darn!
It's so hard to be sarcastic in print.
My point that was so poorly presented was that the same company that censors yours and others posts would likely continue such practices with any dissenters, owners or not. I offer Martin's contractual gag as precedent.
I believe these pages will have to be the safe haven for us Tesla/EV fans to laud their products and staff with praise when deserved and call them out when company actions or employees are less than upstanding.
Darryl called me February 8th. I have an email from him dated the 9th, expanding upon what he said in his phone call.
It's not about selling the car at a nice price, Ted. Tesla Motors started its existence as my dream, and my dream alone. I put my heart and soul into that company for 5 years. I overcame incredible hurdles to create the company, build the team, architect the car, raise the necessary money to fund it all, and guide the company nearly through to production. Oh, and along the way, convince the rest of the world that EVs were indeed the best solution for cars.
Having the very first car produced would have meant very much to me - not in monetary terms, but in terms of its emotional significance as the result of my dedication. Elon understood this perfectly when he also wanted the first car. The second car is not quite the same thing, but it was as close as I could get with Elon taking the first one. Getting a car that was produced after cars that were made for some of Elon's buddies is just not quite the same thing.
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Hey Martin, yes I am aware of your concerns and feelings in these matters, I was just speaking with a "regular car guy's perspective" and not trying to diminish or trivialize all that has happened between you and Tesla. Believe me, I have been paying close attention. You are one of my few personal heros for actually accomplishing something that I was beginning to think no one would(or could). EV for daily use is so badly needed by our country, I could use the rest of the bandwidth just on that subject and its related issues. And not just an EV, but an awesome fun one to boot. Anyway, I hope to have the privilege of meeting you someday, and until then............keep the faith!
Ted K
Ted K
Hi Martin,
So it would appear that TM started building P2/VINF003 before February 8th 2008. Is this correct to the best of your knowledge, or am I missing something here? Darryl did say that they had already started VINF003, right?
Then they announce the start of regular production as being March 17th 2008. What could possibly be their motive for this? Please don't tell me that it takes them 6 weeks to build a Roadster! If this is true then the "ramp up" in production numbers could take significantly longer than predicted.
I still don't understand why they did not begin the production of the gliders a few months earlier so that they could have been shipped to the U.S. and been ready and waiting for the transmission, which to my knowledge is installed along with the motor, ESS, and PEM in San Carlos. This does not sound like "efficiency optimization" (one of Elon's favourite buzz terms, 2 years ago) to me.
I would appreciate any clarification that you can give me on these issues.
All the best,
Chris H.
Kevin Harney,
I'm sorry that it has taken me this long to reply to your posts. I got a little side-tracked, what with the squirrels and all... :smile:
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for framing my response to Darryl so well. I also want to say that I hope that you have been able to resolve your registration issues with this site. I can tell from your posts on the TM blog that you will be a valuable addition to our online community here, so welcome!
All the best,
Chris H.
I'm sorry that it has taken me this long to reply to your posts. I got a little side-tracked, what with the squirrels and all... :smile:
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for framing my response to Darryl so well. I also want to say that I hope that you have been able to resolve your registration issues with this site. I can tell from your posts on the TM blog that you will be a valuable addition to our online community here, so welcome!
All the best,
Chris H.
That is what I was told. You can interpret "start of regular production" many ways, I guess.
The tranny and battery pack were not the only things that are delayed. From what I know, after P1 was built, there were not even enough production parts to assemble another full car. After all, P1 needed to be retrofitted after the start of production. The production date allowed for proper schedling.
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Wow! I wish I could still post on the TM blog. There's a question or two that I wouldn't mind asking...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Ahem, but if you look over some of the posts here in this thread (cough, vfx's long post, cough) some posts that were just lampooning Darryl about his job and you will see deliberate judgements of character in this thread by multiple people; I think those qualify as personal attacks. I don't know much about the situation and I don't think we (by "we", I mean most of us forum members in general) know that much about what is going on with Martin's car, so I don't think some of that was appropriate. Despite the possibility of some things said being untrue, at least Darryl had been willing to respond directly to questions about such things. So I think I had some point in my post.
For Chris, I'm definitely not blaming you or anyone else; what has happened has happened. And the messages I was referring to, was not your messages, because I read them, both here on the thread and on the Tesla blog; I wouldn't consider them as offensive or anything.
I guess what I want to say in general is that sarcasm really doesn't translate well on the internet in print and sometimes people should be more careful, because people read and interpret things differently.
I think this was the point I wanted to express the most; he probably felt he was ganged up on because at some point in this thread as the topic veered off to talking about him instead of talking about the issue. I was riding the fence with my comment because, like doug, I don't think the comments of a few represents the opinions of the whole forum. TTAC is harsh, but toward the whole company, not just one person; a lot easier to comment on a topic when you aren't directly the subject of the topic. Again, I realize as a PR person maybe he should probably have been prepared for stuff like this. I don't know, maybe I was just fooled by Darryl, as you guys are saying.
I just don't feel comfortable judging people like that, mostly because I don't have much of an idea of what is going on right now with Martin's car, and I'm not sure how much of a role Darryl would have played even if it was 100% true Tesla Motors was deliberately doing something shady. That's just my opinion; I just wanted to respond to clarify what I was trying to say, but I feel we should move onwards as this topic on Darryl is dragging on too long (see you guys have already moved on anyways).
I think what all of us want the most in this thread is for Tesla Motors to clear up the issue with Martin's car and treat him right, at the very least, as a customer.
Oh, and sorry for such a long post.
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stopcrazypp,
you said:
"I think what all of us want the most in this thread is for Tesla Motors to clear up the issue with Martin's car and treat him right, at the very least, as a customer."
I agree completely. That would be a good start. Then they need to put him back in his rightful place as CEO of Tesla Motors.
Some day you have to tell me the story of how you came up with your moniker... :smile:
All the best,
Chris H.
you said:
"I think what all of us want the most in this thread is for Tesla Motors to clear up the issue with Martin's car and treat him right, at the very least, as a customer."
I agree completely. That would be a good start. Then they need to put him back in his rightful place as CEO of Tesla Motors.
Some day you have to tell me the story of how you came up with your moniker... :smile:
All the best,
Chris H.
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This is so true. I have had to learn this over and over again - sarcasm does not translate well in the internet. My solution (one that Darryl used to laugh at me for) was to use and even overuse emoticons... NOTICE: I AM JOKING :smile::tongue::biggrin:
You know, I have little sympathy for Darryl if he feels like he has been ganged up upon. Imagine how I have felt with Darryl, Elon, Tesla's board of directors, Tesla's lawyers, and Elon's money against me - and against me originally for no reason and with no warning.
That said, I have endeavored to keep my comments grounded in facts, and have backed up my comments with direct quotes from Darryl and other Tesla voices. When I say that Darryl is not coming clean with something (e.g. the reason for my car's late delivery), I also prove my claim (e.g. with emails from Tesla's lawyer).
"That said, I have endeavored to keep my comments grounded in facts, and have backed up my comments with direct quotes from Darryl and other Tesla voices. When I say that Darryl is not coming clean with something (e.g. the reason for my car's late delivery), I also prove my claim (e.g. with emails from Tesla's lawyer)."
Hi Martin,
to be honest, I don't know how you have managed to show such restraint. I don't know how I would have acted under the same circumstances.
I think that your patience will pay off in the end. The truth always comes out, eventually. I know that the last six months or so cannot have been easy, but you know there are a lot of people out there rooting for you.
All the best,
Chris H.
Hi Martin,
to be honest, I don't know how you have managed to show such restraint. I don't know how I would have acted under the same circumstances.
I think that your patience will pay off in the end. The truth always comes out, eventually. I know that the last six months or so cannot have been easy, but you know there are a lot of people out there rooting for you.
All the best,
Chris H.
Amen.
Setting aside the fact that this situation involves Martin (and includes his own history with the company), this is not going to be the last time when a dissatisfied customer sounds off on the internet - quoting e-mails and correspondance. Whenever and wherever that happens, fellow posters will no doubt rally round with varying expressions of outrage, some of which will overstep the mark.
Tesla needs to get a grip on this. Some customers are going to complain; others are going to seize the opportunity - to poke fun - to be harsh. Everyone else gets a thrill from a good car wreck (oops- wrong metaphor) What happens next?
What have I learned from this? NEVER get Carolyn angry :biggrin:
I think that's a valuable lesson.
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Yes I think this is the most important issue seen from Tesla's corporate standpoint. They need to be able to handle negative criticism like this as there's going to be a lot more of it. Regardless of how they conduct their business there will always be nasty complaints, some rightous and some not. As a PR head Darryl Siry should know how to handle it, since as VP of Service AND PR it's going to end up on his desk anyhow. In that light D. Siry officially saying he will not post here seems wierd and not very proffesional. Tesla does not need a Paypalsucks aimed at them. So regardless of how Tesla treated their original founder they NEED to handle their customer #2 in a professional matter. I'm definately not a lawyer but after what you said above Martin this does seem like grounds for a breach of contract lawsuit.
So in short, Tesla needs to move away from the Ostrich method of problemsolving and resolve this issue. [Yes, I know the Ostrich doesn't really hide it's head in the sand... ]
Cobos
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Resale $$
I know it's secondary, but I wouldn't worry about the resale value of Martin's car. The fact that it is/was his is what will/would skyrocket any auction price!
To get sociological/zoological about this whole thing, consider it a demonstration of the Clash of Alpha Males. "There Can Only Be One!" :wink:
I know it's secondary, but I wouldn't worry about the resale value of Martin's car. The fact that it is/was his is what will/would skyrocket any auction price!
To get sociological/zoological about this whole thing, consider it a demonstration of the Clash of Alpha Males. "There Can Only Be One!" :wink:
Martin's car and increased deposit requirement
I cannot help but wonder whether we should consider the issue of the handling of Martin's car and the company's plan to require deposits to be increased to $60,000, as a reflection of a new corporate philosophy. Neither is very reassuring. The deposit philosophy is discussed in another thread under 2009 pricing. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/tesla-roadster/1087-waitlist-update-2009-price-set-sort.html
I cannot help but wonder whether we should consider the issue of the handling of Martin's car and the company's plan to require deposits to be increased to $60,000, as a reflection of a new corporate philosophy. Neither is very reassuring. The deposit philosophy is discussed in another thread under 2009 pricing. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/tesla-roadster/1087-waitlist-update-2009-price-set-sort.html
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