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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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That’s the reason I am hesitating to convert my LEAPS back to shares at some point. Is there a reasonable way to avoid this by STC a LEAP 4 months before expiry and BTO a Call with the same strike but 6 months out
I was able to do that.

@Papafox recommends rolling by BTO the later call first, and then STC the earlier one after the SP runs up. Unfortunately, I don't have available cash to do this. I was able to do it the opposite way on a couple of months ago. STC and then BTO the later one after the SP fell. It took a week or so. So now I have a few that expire in March. And unfortunately again, I don't expect those to get in the money either. These were $500C pre-split, so $166.67 now.
 
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The counter-tweet

I don’t know who’s right

Nobody knows if we bottomed. But I would expect another leg down if the market as a whole goes down. A lot is riding on the next ER, obvi, for clarification of company outlook and risks. Those two factors will dominate TA in the near term.

I don’t think we can declare victory on today’s trading. The trading on options expiration day can override market sentiment and there was irrational exuberance about the jobs report. Monday will be telling. I’m holding $110-$116CCs as insurance on a drop back next week. I’ll be happy to roll them if we are indeed heading back up.
 
I sold some in premarket for upcoming expenses but bought some calls to partially replace some of the shares if we do run up.

If I were you I’d buy some 2025 calls with the proceeds. Especially if we’re back down a bit on Monday. You can keep similar exposure and have extra cash, at the risk of losing the cost of the calls if we don’t recover in the next two years.

Otherwise, I’d sell cash secured puts to either make a little income or get your shares back at your selling price.
What about buying LEAPs with the cash, and then selling them when they appreciate enough to buy 2000 shares? Would that be pretty low risk? Would that be fairly easy to calculate with the Options Profit Calculator?
 
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I did the same thing as you February 24th 2022 and lost 1M of potential gains in 2 months. Really a lesson I will carry for the rest of my life. It’s the reason I didn’t close everything at open today. I waited. Because last time I paper handed, the stock went to a magnificent +42% climb
Thank you. Misery loves company. It's the regret that I worry about more than being adversely affected by the monetary loss. Always thinking about that mistake, and kicking myself for it.
 
What about buying LEAPs with the cash, and then selling them when they appreciate enough to buy 2000 shares? Would that be pretty low risk? Would that be fairly easy to calculate with the Options Profit Calculator?

After 2022, I’m not going to say anything with options is pretty low risk. If we stay flat or go down more, you’ll lose out on even more of your former shares compared to buying back now.

But with the stock down here and sentiment what it is, if TSLA does return to form soon, they will pay off immensely and you could buy back your shares and more.

You could also do a little of everything - buy back some shares at a loss, sell puts to potentially buy some back at a gain, and use that premium to buy calls to gain a bit of leverage.
 
Nobody knows anything ;)

I feel without further news, SP will follow the market. That means up or down ….

But at some point some stock bottom out and reach a point there is no sellers anymore? I like to think TSLA will do as NFLX. Bottom out after really bad news and then slow gradual increase of stock price after even if the whole market is negative.
 
That’s the reason I am hesitating to convert my LEAPS back to shares at some point. Is there a reasonable way to avoid this by STC a LEAP 4 months before expiry and BTO a Call with the same strike but 6 months out
I’m also looking for information and data re rolling LEAPs (Jan24 $350+) that have dropped 90% in value. A few people have suggested rolling 6 months pre-expiry (perhaps in part trying to time a possible mid-2023 high). At current prices, I’d lose 80+% of the number of contracts if moving to Jan25$160, but I’m just trying to rescue total value not looking to pick up shares. Any further comments would be appreciated.
 
I’m also looking for information and data re rolling LEAPs (Jan24 $350+) that have dropped 90% in value. A few people have suggested rolling 6 months pre-expiry (perhaps in part trying to time a possible mid-2023 high). At current prices, I’d lose 80+% of the number of contracts if moving to Jan25$160, but I’m just trying to rescue total value not looking to pick up shares. Any further comments would be appreciated.
One decision is to act before or after CPI next week
Next is to live to fight another day…

If you want more number of contracts when rolling to Jan 25, need to go further OTM- e.g. Jan25 400 strikes are like 5-6$. Cheers!!

+I moved my sold Jan24CC to 400 from the 500s. By April if SP is stagnant- maybe will further roll to the 320s and use the $ to buy more calls
During this dip, i reduced # of Jan 25 contracts for better strikes at 200-250 a month back. SP continued to drop, but I left them there.
Now I am buying/nibbling over leveraged far OTMs in 400 for few $ I scrape from weekly CC sells
 
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Why do we NEED to see anything? That’s BS and why I hate technical analysis. It’s one thing to point out likelihoods based on historical patterns rooted in psychology or how macro algorithms work, but to put an absolute on things is stupid.
Yes and the funny thing is none of these TA experts know anything about the company. So to make these bold predictions of W-5 without thinking about the catalysts is just plain wrong. I do think there is value in understanding how institutional bots trade.
Q4 earnings and margin guidance will move the stock. Until then if enough investors think they are getting a good price we go up.

Talking about experts and their knowledge of the company here’s a funny video

 
After 2022, I’m not going to say anything with options is pretty low risk. If we stay flat or go down more, you’ll lose out on even more of your former shares compared to buying back now.

But with the stock down here and sentiment what it is, if TSLA does return to form soon, they will pay off immensely and you could buy back your shares and more.

You could also do a little of everything - buy back some shares at a loss, sell puts to potentially buy some back at a gain, and use that premium to buy calls to gain a bit of leverage.
So if you're going to sell at the bottom, then it's really only a good move if you're going to turn around and buy LEAPs. Maybe I didn't make a mistake after all, but of course the problem is we don't know if this is the bottom. One thing we can agree on is we are a lot closer to the bottom than we were two years ago when people were excited about LEAPs at the 200 level. So I'm thinking about lowering my exposure by buying back 1,000 shares at a loss and then buying LEAP's with the remaining $100,000. Also waiting a bit to make sure we actually bottomed out.

I'm not sure if I'm in the right thread for my situation or not. Is there a more appropriate thread I should be In?

Also I'm not asking for advice. I'm just trying to think about some different ideas and their implications. Any decision made concerning my investment accounts is my dicision and no one else is responsible for my accounts but me. Does this disclaimer need to be made, or is that just a given? Can someone be held liable for giving investment advice on a forum?
 
But at some point some stock bottom out and reach a point there is no sellers anymore? I like to think TSLA will do as NFLX. Bottom out after really bad news and then slow gradual increase of stock price after even if the whole market is negative.
There are always sellers, unfortuantely. Margin calls, greedy shorts ...

What we need is some good news which takes the SP up to ~150. After that even if the market goes down 20 or 30%, we could still be above 100. At this point, TSLA will go down if we have a weeklong bearish market (say because of bad CPI numbers).
 
I blew it. I sold in the pre-market after waking up at 3am in a panic. I thought after all the not so scary stuff that has brought down the stock price, there was no way the stock would hold up well after significant price cuts. I wasn't worried about the company, but just the optics after Tesla and Elon have been stateing that they didn't see any demand issues for the foreseeable future. I sold 2,000 shares in my Roth, at $104 and that put my mind at ease and I was able to go back to sleep…..snip
Ok, you did the “right” thing for you. Every investor has an unable to sleep level, and yours was triggered. Don’t, compound your selling fear with another FOMO error, buy buying back at a higher price. Instead, re-evaluate and verify your risk tolerance, then proceed slowly. Personally, I’m upset by last year’s drop, kicking myself for not selling when Elon sold, but we cannot know the future.
No margin. Just kind of lost my sanity when I was reading doom and gloom comments about the bloodbath these price cuts were going to cause. I've just lost so much already. I thought there was no way the stock would go up as much as it did today. I couldn't sleep and I bought myself a few hours of sleep with a false sense of security. It's the same panic I'm feeling right now about buying back right now at a loss. What are the odds we won't be dipping back down towards $100 again? Seems like pretty good odds it will, but maybe it won't. Ugh.
My “non-advice” is to sell weekly cash-secured puts. Maybe not all at once. You could sell 4-5 contracts every day, trying to time the morning dip for maximum premiums, which will spread out the risk and rebuild your confidence. Next week’s 104s were at $1.65. If you get that every week, it’s about $80-$85 for the year, bringing you back to an equivalent $185-$190 SP. Not bad return from here. Worst case you lag behind the SP rise or you eventually get put the shares by a big drop in SP. At least it should help you sleep and avoid the mistake of selling low and buying high. Good luck.

Again, personally I’m worried about losing shares via my CCs during a big SP rise, which I believe is very probable in 2023. I will still sell some CCs, but now only on half my shares and will match them with CSPs to form a straddle or tight strangle. With cash earned, I will continue to buy shares and back more CSPs because it seems to work for me. It might be better to buy ITM 2025 LEAPS, but that requires knowing the future.
I'm not sure if I'm in the right thread for my situation or not. Is there a more appropriate thread I should be In?
Definitely the right place to learn.
 
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Also I'm not asking for advice. I'm just trying to think about some different ideas and their implications. Any decision made concerning my investment accounts is my dicision and no one else is responsible for my accounts but me. Does this disclaimer need to be made, or is that just a given? Can someone be held liable for giving investment advice on a forum?
It's a given, though its also something we like to repeat frequently.

We all make our own decisions, and experience our own consequences.


The chat about the company, technical analysis, option trade strategies all represent our own opinions and how we see things. At least for me, all of that goes into the soup and out comes my own decisions. I also like to post what I'm thinking, especially when there is something I think is important and I don't see much or any air time going that way.

We tend to be more focused on selling options than buying, but we've also got a long dated call buying going on, and we're kind of agnostic. You will probably not find as much knowledge or insight on buying options. It's not a restriction or anything - just that the thread began and has been primarily about selling options.
 
I did the same, for the first time in a while. I've been telling myself the SP is too low to sell CCs. And missing out on premiums. Finally decided to get back in. As usual, I would be thrilled to have to roll these next week.
I’ve been telling myself that for the past 6 months. Twice I sold some cc’s and both times I closed them out for a loss (both sets would have expired worthless too). I don’t have the stomach for selling them, especially at these annual lows.
 
So if you're going to sell at the bottom, then it's really only a good move if you're going to turn around and buy LEAPs. Maybe I didn't make a mistake after all, but of course the problem is we don't know if this is the bottom. One thing we can agree on is we are a lot closer to the bottom than we were two years ago when people were excited about LEAPs at the 200 level. So I'm thinking about lowering my exposure by buying back 1,000 shares at a loss and then buying LEAP's with the remaining $100,000. Also waiting a bit to make sure we actually bottomed out.

I'm not sure if I'm in the right thread for my situation or not. Is there a more appropriate thread I should be In?

Also I'm not asking for advice. I'm just trying to think about some different ideas and their implications. Any decision made concerning my investment accounts is my dicision and no one else is responsible for my accounts but me. Does this disclaimer need to be made, or is that just a given? Can someone be held liable for giving investment advice on a forum?

Just keep in mind what would happen if this wasn’t the bottom and we do drop further: the 1000 shares you buy back will lose money and the LEAPS will lose even faster, so it will feel even worse than Friday morning pre-market.

I started converting to LEAPS around 200 and it made this drop even uglier. Down here is definitely better timing but we can always go lower, you can never know for sure.

So I wouldn’t be quite as aggressive buying LEAPS with half your free cash. A 1/25 100c is about $5000, and even buying just 10 contracts replaces 1000 shares - i.e., no matter how high the share price goes in that time frame, you could always get your 1000 shares back by exercising and paying $10k per contract.

So maybe in your position I would buy half the shares back, buy 10x 1/25 100c, and sell 5x weekly 100p.

-You have similar exposure if we go up.

-If we stay flat, you’re making a little each week from the put premium that you can use to buy shares.

-If we go down, you’ll either buy back 500 shares a little cheaper or you could choose to roll the puts down.
 
My “non-advice” is to sell weekly cash-secured puts. Maybe not all at once. You could sell 4-5 contracts every day, trying to time the morning dip for maximum premiums, which will spread out the risk and rebuild your confidence. Next week’s 104s were at $1.65. If you get that every week, it’s about $80-$85 for the year, bringing you back to an equivalent $185-$190 SP. Not bad return from here. Worst case you lag behind the SP rise or you eventually get put the shares by a big drop in SP. At least it should help you sleep and avoid the mistake of selling low and buying high. Good luck.
What if I just bought 20 contracts every Monday morning at the same time? My job doesn't really allow me to follow the market that closely. How would I decide what strike price to buy at? If the stock has a major breakout wouldn't I just get left behind in the dust? What do you mean by bring back to equivalent $185 - $190 stock price?