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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Yeh.
I'm happy for you that you got to offload your ITM/NTM CC's last week. I wasn't so lucky, BTC too soon.
Are you selling more tomorrow or waiting to see how the week evolves?
I still have leftover 5/17 -c162.50/165/167.50. Also a few 5/31 -c170 and CSP 5/17 -p180 from the few contracts that I rolled and flipped instead of doubling.

I'm comfortable with this because I can close the puts and double the calls if we rise, or close the calls and roll the puts flat if we dip. Or roll both for strike improvement if we're flat.

I did take profit on some LEAPS that were backing the short calls I closed last week, bought in the 140s before the ER. I have to be less aggressive with CCs for now but I have more dry powder in case of a dip from here. And I've been buying a few $5-$10 OTM puts every Friday for cheap insurance.
 
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I still have leftover 5/17 -c162.50/165/167.50. Also a few 5/31 -c170 and CSP 5/17 -p180 from the few contracts that I rolled and flipped instead of doubling.

I'm comfortable with this because I can close the puts and double the calls if we rise, or close the calls and roll the puts flat if we dip. Or roll both for strike improvement if we're flat.

I did take profit on some LEAPS that were backing the short calls I closed last week, bought in the 140s before the ER. I have to be less aggressive with CCs for now but I have more dry powder in case of a dip from here. And I've been buying a few $5-$10 OTM puts every Friday for cheap insurance.

Will you be buying new LEAP calls, like +P100 6/2026, if we fall more? Sentiment is all over the place currently.
 
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‘Big Short’ investor Danny Moses doubles down on bet against Tesla, says core business is ‘falling apart’; TSLA can fall another 70% to $50/share.

“This move to own it for robotaxis and AI is going to fade over time. So, $150 billion market cap at $50? Seems like a reasonable valuation to me,” he said.

Moses, who successfully bet against the housing market before the 2008 financial crisis, has had a $50 short on Tesla since last November.

He sees Tesla as a ‘show me’ story and believes that investors will start to lose patience with the company’s narrative as an auto company. Moses expects Wayve, an autonomous driving company, to emerge as a serious competitor to Tesla, citing their focus on driving in cities. Wayve recently raised over $1 billion in funding from major investors like Nvidia, Microsoft, and SoftBank, in which Moses also has a stake through a venture capital fund. He believes that not enough attention is being paid to Wayve’s potential impact on the autonomous driving market.

Tesla shares fell by 7% last week, with Moses continuing to express skepticism about the company’s future prospects.

He remains cautious about Tesla’s reliance on the robotaxi and AI narrative, suggesting that this focus may fade over time.

He believes that a $50 valuation for Tesla is more realistic given the current challenges facing the company.

Moses sees competition in autonomous driving intensifying, with Wayve poised to challenge Tesla’s position in this market.

Despite the recent decline in Tesla’s stock price, Moses remains committed to his short position on the company.

In his interview on CNBC’s “Fast Money,” Moses expressed concerns about Tesla’s management decisions and strategic direction. He criticized Musk’s emphasis on robotaxis and AI, suggesting that these plans may not materialize as expected. He highlighted the risks associated with Tesla’s business operations, including the workforce reductions and the ongoing investigation into securities fraud. Moses’ skepticism about Tesla’s prospects reflects his background in successful short bets, indicating that he believes the company is overvalued and vulnerable to a significant decline in the future.

With Tesla facing increasing competition in the autonomous driving market, Moses sees the company’s position as precarious and sees potential for disruption from emerging competitors like Wayve.

Overall, Moses’ bearish outlook on Tesla shares reflects his assessment of the company’s fundamental weaknesses and strategic vulnerabilities. He remains committed to his short position on Tesla, despite the stock’s recent decline, citing concerns about the company’s core business and strategic focus.

His assessment of Tesla’s valuation and competitive position underscores the challenges facing the company in an increasingly competitive market for electric vehicles and autonomous driving technology. Moses’ track record of successful short bets and his analysis of Tesla’s prospects suggest that investors should exercise caution when considering the long-term potential of the company’s stock.

Key Highlights:

📍 Danny Moses reiterates bearish position on Tesla, amidst 32% stock decline in 2023.

📍 Cites weakening core business and diversions to robotaxis and AI as major concerns.

📍 Highlights recent workforce cuts over 10%, and looming fraud investigations.

📍 Marks August 8 robotaxi unveiling as pivotal, yet skeptical of its success.

📍 Suggests a $50 valuation per share, questioning Tesla's market cap sustainability.

📍 Tesla's stock fell 2% closing at $168.47 last Friday.

Context/Background:

Danny Moses, famed for his predictions during the 2008 financial crisis, continues his scrutiny of Tesla. His concerns focus on operational instabilities and strategic diversions under Elon Musk's leadership, reflecting deep market skepticism.

👉 Why This Matters:

📍 Moses' perspective may influence market sentiment and investor confidence in Tesla.

📍 Highlights broader implications of strategic shifts within major tech-oriented automakers.

👉 Market Insights:

📍 Continued bearish outlook from a notable market player like Moses could affect Tesla's stock performance and investor decisions.

👉 Expert Statement:

🗨️ "Everything is kind of falling apart in their core business. He’s pointing everybody to robotaxis and AI and autonomy," - Danny Moses.

👉 Impact & Recommendations:

📍 Investors should critically assess Tesla’s strategic direction and operational health.

📍 Consider market risks associated with Tesla's pivot towards AI and autonomous technologies.


 
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  • Funny
Reactions: mickle and M|S|W
‘Big Short’ investor Danny Moses doubles down on bet against Tesla, says core business is ‘falling apart’; TSLA can fall another 70% to $50/share.

“This move to own it for robotaxis and AI is going to fade over time. So, $150 billion market cap at $50? Seems like a reasonable valuation to me,” he said.

Moses, who successfully bet against the housing market before the 2008 financial crisis, has had a $50 short on Tesla since last November.

He sees Tesla as a ‘show me’ story and believes that investors will start to lose patience with the company’s narrative as an auto company. Moses expects Wayve, an autonomous driving company, to emerge as a serious competitor to Tesla, citing their focus on driving in cities. Wayve recently raised over $1 billion in funding from major investors like Nvidia, Microsoft, and SoftBank, in which Moses also has a stake through a venture capital fund. He believes that not enough attention is being paid to Wayve’s potential impact on the autonomous driving market.

Tesla shares fell by 7% last week, with Moses continuing to express skepticism about the company’s future prospects.

He remains cautious about Tesla’s reliance on the robotaxi and AI narrative, suggesting that this focus may fade over time.

He believes that a $50 valuation for Tesla is more realistic given the current challenges facing the company.

Moses sees competition in autonomous driving intensifying, with Wayve poised to challenge Tesla’s position in this market.

Despite the recent decline in Tesla’s stock price, Moses remains committed to his short position on the company.

In his interview on CNBC’s “Fast Money,” Moses expressed concerns about Tesla’s management decisions and strategic direction. He criticized Musk’s emphasis on robotaxis and AI, suggesting that these plans may not materialize as expected. He highlighted the risks associated with Tesla’s business operations, including the workforce reductions and the ongoing investigation into securities fraud. Moses’ skepticism about Tesla’s prospects reflects his background in successful short bets, indicating that he believes the company is overvalued and vulnerable to a significant decline in the future.

With Tesla facing increasing competition in the autonomous driving market, Moses sees the company’s position as precarious and sees potential for disruption from emerging competitors like Wayve.

Overall, Moses’ bearish outlook on Tesla shares reflects his assessment of the company’s fundamental weaknesses and strategic vulnerabilities. He remains committed to his short position on Tesla, despite the stock’s recent decline, citing concerns about the company’s core business and strategic focus.

His assessment of Tesla’s valuation and competitive position underscores the challenges facing the company in an increasingly competitive market for electric vehicles and autonomous driving technology. Moses’ track record of successful short bets and his analysis of Tesla’s prospects suggest that investors should exercise caution when considering the long-term potential of the company’s stock.

Key Highlights:

📍 Danny Moses reiterates bearish position on Tesla, amidst 32% stock decline in 2023.

📍 Cites weakening core business and diversions to robotaxis and AI as major concerns.

📍 Highlights recent workforce cuts over 10%, and looming fraud investigations.

📍 Marks August 8 robotaxi unveiling as pivotal, yet skeptical of its success.

📍 Suggests a $50 valuation per share, questioning Tesla's market cap sustainability.

📍 Tesla's stock fell 2% closing at $168.47 last Friday.

Context/Background:

Danny Moses, famed for his predictions during the 2008 financial crisis, continues his scrutiny of Tesla. His concerns focus on operational instabilities and strategic diversions under Elon Musk's leadership, reflecting deep market skepticism.

👉 Why This Matters:

📍 Moses' perspective may influence market sentiment and investor confidence in Tesla.

📍 Highlights broader implications of strategic shifts within major tech-oriented automakers.

👉 Market Insights:

📍 Continued bearish outlook from a notable market player like Moses could affect Tesla's stock performance and investor decisions.

👉 Expert Statement:

🗨️ "Everything is kind of falling apart in their core business. He’s pointing everybody to robotaxis and AI and autonomy," - Danny Moses.

👉 Impact & Recommendations:

📍 Investors should critically assess Tesla’s strategic direction and operational health.

📍 Consider market risks associated with Tesla's pivot towards AI and autonomous technologies.


So not Michael Burry this time? ;)
FUD does seem to be very high
% of selling by shorts is 64%, one of the highest per the papafox thread

So all eyes on PPI, CPI
China market seems to be doing well these days, so expecting good China sales…
The 0.99 interest deal a lot better than hearing about another round of price cuts
 
Last edited:
‘Big Short’ investor Danny Moses doubles down on bet against Tesla, says core business is ‘falling apart’; TSLA can fall another 70% to $50/share.

“This move to own it for robotaxis and AI is going to fade over time. So, $150 billion market cap at $50? Seems like a reasonable valuation to me,” he said.

Moses, who successfully bet against the housing market before the 2008 financial crisis, has had a $50 short on Tesla since last November.

He sees Tesla as a ‘show me’ story and believes that investors will start to lose patience with the company’s narrative as an auto company. Moses expects Wayve, an autonomous driving company, to emerge as a serious competitor to Tesla, citing their focus on driving in cities. Wayve recently raised over $1 billion in funding from major investors like Nvidia, Microsoft, and SoftBank, in which Moses also has a stake through a venture capital fund. He believes that not enough attention is being paid to Wayve’s potential impact on the autonomous driving market.

Tesla shares fell by 7% last week, with Moses continuing to express skepticism about the company’s future prospects.

He remains cautious about Tesla’s reliance on the robotaxi and AI narrative, suggesting that this focus may fade over time.

He believes that a $50 valuation for Tesla is more realistic given the current challenges facing the company.

Moses sees competition in autonomous driving intensifying, with Wayve poised to challenge Tesla’s position in this market.

Despite the recent decline in Tesla’s stock price, Moses remains committed to his short position on the company.

In his interview on CNBC’s “Fast Money,” Moses expressed concerns about Tesla’s management decisions and strategic direction. He criticized Musk’s emphasis on robotaxis and AI, suggesting that these plans may not materialize as expected. He highlighted the risks associated with Tesla’s business operations, including the workforce reductions and the ongoing investigation into securities fraud. Moses’ skepticism about Tesla’s prospects reflects his background in successful short bets, indicating that he believes the company is overvalued and vulnerable to a significant decline in the future.

With Tesla facing increasing competition in the autonomous driving market, Moses sees the company’s position as precarious and sees potential for disruption from emerging competitors like Wayve.

Overall, Moses’ bearish outlook on Tesla shares reflects his assessment of the company’s fundamental weaknesses and strategic vulnerabilities. He remains committed to his short position on Tesla, despite the stock’s recent decline, citing concerns about the company’s core business and strategic focus.

His assessment of Tesla’s valuation and competitive position underscores the challenges facing the company in an increasingly competitive market for electric vehicles and autonomous driving technology. Moses’ track record of successful short bets and his analysis of Tesla’s prospects suggest that investors should exercise caution when considering the long-term potential of the company’s stock.

Key Highlights:

📍 Danny Moses reiterates bearish position on Tesla, amidst 32% stock decline in 2023.

📍 Cites weakening core business and diversions to robotaxis and AI as major concerns.

📍 Highlights recent workforce cuts over 10%, and looming fraud investigations.

📍 Marks August 8 robotaxi unveiling as pivotal, yet skeptical of its success.

📍 Suggests a $50 valuation per share, questioning Tesla's market cap sustainability.

📍 Tesla's stock fell 2% closing at $168.47 last Friday.

Context/Background:

Danny Moses, famed for his predictions during the 2008 financial crisis, continues his scrutiny of Tesla. His concerns focus on operational instabilities and strategic diversions under Elon Musk's leadership, reflecting deep market skepticism.

👉 Why This Matters:

📍 Moses' perspective may influence market sentiment and investor confidence in Tesla.

📍 Highlights broader implications of strategic shifts within major tech-oriented automakers.

👉 Market Insights:

📍 Continued bearish outlook from a notable market player like Moses could affect Tesla's stock performance and investor decisions.

👉 Expert Statement:

🗨️ "Everything is kind of falling apart in their core business. He’s pointing everybody to robotaxis and AI and autonomy," - Danny Moses.

👉 Impact & Recommendations:

📍 Investors should critically assess Tesla’s strategic direction and operational health.

📍 Consider market risks associated with Tesla's pivot towards AI and autonomous technologies.


This guys off his rocker.

There is no way investors wouldn't jump in when TSLA starts hitting a similar market cap to Toyota. It wouldn't get to $50 a share and this is coming from me who is quite bearish on TSLA short term and sold all my shares.
 
‘Big Short’ investor Danny Moses doubles down on bet against Tesla, says core business is ‘falling apart’; TSLA can fall another 70% to $50/share.

“This move to own it for robotaxis and AI is going to fade over time. So, $150 billion market cap at $50? Seems like a reasonable valuation to me,” he said.

Moses, who successfully bet against the housing market before the 2008 financial crisis, has had a $50 short on Tesla since last November.

He sees Tesla as a ‘show me’ story and believes that investors will start to lose patience with the company’s narrative as an auto company. Moses expects Wayve, an autonomous driving company, to emerge as a serious competitor to Tesla, citing their focus on driving in cities. Wayve recently raised over $1 billion in funding from major investors like Nvidia, Microsoft, and SoftBank, in which Moses also has a stake through a venture capital fund. He believes that not enough attention is being paid to Wayve’s potential impact on the autonomous driving market.

Tesla shares fell by 7% last week, with Moses continuing to express skepticism about the company’s future prospects.

He remains cautious about Tesla’s reliance on the robotaxi and AI narrative, suggesting that this focus may fade over time.

He believes that a $50 valuation for Tesla is more realistic given the current challenges facing the company.

Moses sees competition in autonomous driving intensifying, with Wayve poised to challenge Tesla’s position in this market.

Despite the recent decline in Tesla’s stock price, Moses remains committed to his short position on the company.

In his interview on CNBC’s “Fast Money,” Moses expressed concerns about Tesla’s management decisions and strategic direction. He criticized Musk’s emphasis on robotaxis and AI, suggesting that these plans may not materialize as expected. He highlighted the risks associated with Tesla’s business operations, including the workforce reductions and the ongoing investigation into securities fraud. Moses’ skepticism about Tesla’s prospects reflects his background in successful short bets, indicating that he believes the company is overvalued and vulnerable to a significant decline in the future.

With Tesla facing increasing competition in the autonomous driving market, Moses sees the company’s position as precarious and sees potential for disruption from emerging competitors like Wayve.

Overall, Moses’ bearish outlook on Tesla shares reflects his assessment of the company’s fundamental weaknesses and strategic vulnerabilities. He remains committed to his short position on Tesla, despite the stock’s recent decline, citing concerns about the company’s core business and strategic focus.

His assessment of Tesla’s valuation and competitive position underscores the challenges facing the company in an increasingly competitive market for electric vehicles and autonomous driving technology. Moses’ track record of successful short bets and his analysis of Tesla’s prospects suggest that investors should exercise caution when considering the long-term potential of the company’s stock.

Key Highlights:

📍 Danny Moses reiterates bearish position on Tesla, amidst 32% stock decline in 2023.

📍 Cites weakening core business and diversions to robotaxis and AI as major concerns.

📍 Highlights recent workforce cuts over 10%, and looming fraud investigations.

📍 Marks August 8 robotaxi unveiling as pivotal, yet skeptical of its success.

📍 Suggests a $50 valuation per share, questioning Tesla's market cap sustainability.

📍 Tesla's stock fell 2% closing at $168.47 last Friday.

Context/Background:

Danny Moses, famed for his predictions during the 2008 financial crisis, continues his scrutiny of Tesla. His concerns focus on operational instabilities and strategic diversions under Elon Musk's leadership, reflecting deep market skepticism.

👉 Why This Matters:

📍 Moses' perspective may influence market sentiment and investor confidence in Tesla.

📍 Highlights broader implications of strategic shifts within major tech-oriented automakers.

👉 Market Insights:

📍 Continued bearish outlook from a notable market player like Moses could affect Tesla's stock performance and investor decisions.

👉 Expert Statement:

🗨️ "Everything is kind of falling apart in their core business. He’s pointing everybody to robotaxis and AI and autonomy," - Danny Moses.

👉 Impact & Recommendations:

📍 Investors should critically assess Tesla’s strategic direction and operational health.

📍 Consider market risks associated with Tesla's pivot towards AI and autonomous technologies.



Seems like Wayve has been using end to end AI for awhile. The 15 minutes of autonomous driving using their end to end AI tech in London is from 2021. I never heard of them before this, but it's funny that tech seems to converge around the same time. Their version used vision only at first, but they seem to be adding hi res radar as well.

In another video that showed Bill Gates driving with Wayve a year or two later, he noted that there were a few interventions when test riding Wayve in London. Driving in London looks challenging.

 
Seems like Wayve has been using end to end AI for awhile. The 15 minutes of autonomous driving using their end to end AI tech in London is from 2021. I never heard of them before this, but it's funny that tech seems to converge around the same time. Their version used vision only at first, but they seem to be adding hi res radar as well.

In another video that showed Bill Gates driving with Wayve a year or two later, he noted that there were a few interventions when test riding Wayve in London. Driving in London looks challenging.

Didn’t hear of them till last Fri , and not discrediting them or anything…

But one think for sure , the crooks on WS must be scheming to give us the Nikolas, Lordstowns and Fiskers of FSD …
 
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I agree. TSLA having not been able to hold both recent runs does look quite bearish. Similar sentiment to @tivoboy who also sees deeper downside before seeing any upside.

It's also interesting what Cary said re lame fundamentals will emerge to support the depressed TSLA action (chicken vs. egg). Imagine if the 6/13 vote flops, Q2 comes in bad, and 8/8 flops, then his <$100 possibility doesn't look so outlandish.

Question for us is how to prepare and trade both sides.

I have no idea how to position for the next few weeks. And given my non-negligible losses from the earlier gyrations I'm even more skittish. Meanwhile I'm just holding longs and 15x -P300 6/2026 that feels radioactive (can likely assign <$132). Not liking the stress!

On a hopeful note, if TSLA closes back over $170, there's hope for $176-184-201.
My personal advice to myself is to keep away from directional, OTM short bets, lower my expectations and operate some wide strangles

Easier said than done as I've been caught out again, this time with -p180's, so looking at multiple strategies to roll those down, or up and out, or whatever...
 
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I note that chip stocks down, but all EV stocks are up - I can only assume that the markets decided Biden's 100% tariff on EV's is a good thing after all...

Now whether to buy-back my -p180's with some profits, and reposition, or wait... think I'm going to leave them for the moment, at least the issue with extrinsic is solved for the moment