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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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I have so much to learn yet. I don't understand how a BPS that is so far underwater for this Friday expiration could possibly be rolled for a credit (the 1170/1080 1/21)? Can you provide further details so I can deepen my understanding of how these spreads and rolls work?
You're already at max loss, so you won't be able to roll without paying a debit. If by some chance we get to the mid $1100s tomorrow or at least get above $1080 by Friday, you should consider closing to at least reduce your max loss. Generally, you can roll out a week up to halfway between your strikes for little to no credit. My own experience - roll before you get to the halfway point otherwise you're just buying a week in hopes for a turnaround. I'm personally not comfortable at your levels, but if my 950/850s were at risk, I'd start rolling as we were about to breach 950 so I could get both credit and a lower strike.
 
I have so much to learn yet. I don't understand how a BPS that is so far underwater for this Friday expiration could possibly be rolled for a credit (the 1170/1080 1/21)? Can you provide further details so I can deepen my understanding of how these spreads and rolls work?
By widening the spread. This means you’re committing more cash or margin to backing the position though.

Also this isn’t a position I would normally have opened but it was a roll back of a 1050 04/2022 BPS I had initiated as a flip roll of a deep ITM CC from when we blew through the 800s. My next roll of that position, after this widen, and assuming I don’t get the win of a big ER rally, will likely be a split flip to cut my margin and max loss in half.
 
I am very distraught with the current price action. I have the following BPS for 1/21 Exp. that are vexing me:
1x 1100/980
1x 1100/960
2x 1080/950
1x 1050/900

I know I can roll for credit or debit or strike improvement or spread improvement, etc., but right now I feel like I want to take my broken toys and go home. :(
Risk tolerance is a muscle that needs developing. Working through the rolls and position management is part of that work out.
 
By widening the spread. This means you’re committing more cash or margin to backing the position though.

Also this isn’t a position I would normally have opened but it was a roll back of a 1050 04/2022 BPS I had initiated as a flip roll of a deep ITM CC from when we blew through the 800s. My next roll of that position, after this widen, and assuming I don’t get the win of a big ER rally, will likely be a split flip to cut my margin and max loss in half.
Yeah, that's probably why it is confusing because on the 1st spread you lower the contracts, and on the 2nd spread you only go 10 wider.
 
I am very distraught with the current price action. I have the following BPS for 1/21 Exp. that are vexing me:
1x 1100/980
1x 1100/960
2x 1080/950
1x 1050/900

I know I can roll for credit or debit or strike improvement or spread improvement, etc., but right now I feel like I want to take my broken toys and go home. :(
I feel ya :)

I have more than once just stopped trying to 'heal' a position, close it (take the loss), and start over again with a clean slate. This is part of where my earlier observation about their being a rhythm to these positions, where one winner begets or sets up the next winner.
Risk tolerance is a muscle that needs developing. Working through the rolls and position management is part of that work out.
Totally agree with this - risk tolerance is indeed a muscle to develop. As is knowing when to pick up the broken toys and go home.


You don't mention one way or the other (maybe you did previously) - if these are small positions for the purpose of learning spreads with skin in the game, then you've got a great setup!

All of the choices come with upsides and downsides. Be sure you can identify what a good and bad move in the share price will mean to any new share price - especially the magnitude (they usually aren't equal).


One of the reasons I like wide spreads is that 1 management method that is always available is narrowing the spread (whether its a GOOD idea is a different question) while increasing the contract count. For example you might take that 1100/980 and turn it into 2x 1070/1010. The $120 wide spread becomes a $60 wide spread and now you can have 2 of them. Hopefully you can get a strike improvement out of that as well - maybe a 1060/1000. The upside is that if the share price moves up then you go OTM at 1070 instead of 1100. The downside is that losses accumulate 2x as fast (and that 1070/1010 position might not be available for a credit; maybe its more like 1080/1020).

You can add to the position. Figure out what spread you can roll that 1100/980 to while also adding a second contract. The new position will have much better strikes but will also have 2x the capital at risk. Upside - you go OTM that much sooner. Downside - you have 2x the capital at risk, the shares keep going down, and now you get to lose 2x as much as just taking the loss earlier would have done. A related version - put that incremental capital into the spread width and see where you can roll. So that 1100/980 mentally becomes an 1100/860 and then you see what it can be rolled to. You still have 2x the capital at risk.

That 1050/900 could be rolled down for a credit and a better strike (sooner OTM, more likely to go OTM) while still generating a small net credit. It could also be rolled straight out for a larger credit - maybe to generate some positive cash flow that you go 'spend' on another one of those to make it better.

They can all be rolled for time, where a "for a credit" restriction means that the strikes will get worse.

There is a flip roll where you convert a put spread into a call spread. Something like that -1100p/+980p (assuming $1020 share price - $80 ITM) would approximately turn into a -940c/+1060c call spread. Now you need the share price to go down instead of needing for it to go up. This one is highly dependent on what direction you think the shares will be going in. I've had these work well and I've had them work disastrously.

Maybe the best part here is that you've got a variety of positions which means that you can try out a variety of solutions and then see how they evolve and how you feel about each.


None of this is advice - just more ideas to thrash through. I think that the closest thing to advice I have is to spend some time with the options chain or a tool in which you can set up different trades to see what comes out of it. Also consider multi-week rolls - they behave differently with spreads over straight puts or calls; I've seen plenty of situations where a 2 week roll was >> than a 1 week roll.
 
All I have for this week are 1000/900 BPS that I'll sit on til tomorrow afternoon and roll out a week for more premium as needed.

Everything else is BPS at slightly higher strikes for 1/28 expiration and I'm not touching those til next Thursday afternoon.

Highest strike is 1060 and I can't see them being ITM after earnings. Happy to roll every week for a couple months to find out.
 
Can't really blame macros much today. Tesla is close the bottom of my watch list today. Took the opportunity to convert my larger than usual size short puts expiring this week with strikes ranging from 1000 to 1070 to a third of the contracts at 1100 for 1/28 and got some cash out. It felt like debt consolidation.. :D:D

These are now effectively 400 wide spreads 1100/700 for next week. Now I have better downside protection if stock goes down and more upside if the stock goes up (for this week). And I am using much less margin. The downside being I dipped in to the post earnings expiries this week before I could grab all the theta for offer next 2 days, and that was a lot given these were at the money contracts. But not so bad as I effectively bought them back at break-even.

Basically, I swapped theta / gamma exposure to delta exposure, which I like at the moment going into earnings. And this sets me up to add more deltas if we dip again into the 900s later this week or less likely, earlier next week.
 
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Oh and trust me, I'm regularly confused too. I've had to calculate in a separate spreadsheet to understand the relations in all the columns in IBKR's Trading Work Station. It all makes sense, but at first sight it's very confusing to understand where 'unrealised P&L' comes from if you don't have the column 'cost basis' and only a column 'market value'. Or why suddenly my cash got less because I closed a put spread, I was meant to make money, no?!
One of my bemusements today is how 1x Feb04 800 put is keeping my margin in absolute equilibrium although the SP is tanking.

One of my not so bemusements is WTF do I really need to think about rolling my 2x Jan21 1000/900bps's?!
 
  • STO 012122C1075 at 3:40pm for $10.95 -- 45% drop during the day, dang it waited too long hoping for a Monday rebound/FOMO, looks like nothing much happening with SP this week.
  • Above is in a $1073 buy-write which has returned 11% in 2 months, 53% annualized, excluding SP change.
  • Not doing anything this week against core shares, unless temptation strikes tomorrow (I do have a 10-day trip to FL coming up).

Looking at a 75% profit already, but don’t see a $75 move by Friday, hmmm……
 
One of my bemusements today is how 1x Feb04 800 put is keeping my margin in absolute equilibrium although the SP is tanking.

One of my not so bemusements is WTF do I really need to think about rolling my 2x Jan21 1000/900bps's?!
Not sure about the roll - I just opened a -$970/+$900 BPS for $9 each for 01/21 - not many but a little whiskey money never hurts....
 
It being the January monthly expiration I've been expecting some pretty extreme trading this week. Trading that seems particularly divorced from company fundamentals due to all of those options that have been accumulating for so long.

Somebody elsewhere pointed me to an article talking about the net value of options expiring this week for either NASDAQ or S&P 500. In past years the overall balance in the value of those options in the individual companies was closer to $0 (small numbers). This year its pretty high at something like $100B+. What I find germane about that is it provides overall market (maker) motive for the overall market to be down this week in order to lower that cost at expiration.

I really hope I'm right - I've got deeply ITM put spreads already positioned for 1/28 that are working on an assumption we'll see a bounce next Monday when this week has expired, as well as a run up into and/or past earnings. If I'm wrong then I get to start figuring out how to rescue deeply ITM and possibly ~max loss put spreads. Or I suppose I'm already trying to rescue them, with the current plan being the two big positive catalysts that I see next week.
 
It was pointed out in the main thread, but bears repeating here:

QQQ is on the 200 day MA. If it breaks below that, we could see significant continued downward momentum across the board.