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You actually can pay over triple taxation in California, and we endorse ex post facto laws. We also have double jeopardy. Our government requires to file your racial information with the authorities, and uses your SSN illegally as an identifier. So far it does not have to tattoo'd on you, yet. It gives more rights to non citizens than citizens. We allow some people to be exempt from income taxes entirely, and even pay them tax dollars for not paying taxes.
It's a tad late to worry about Sacramento urinating on the US and California Constitutions.
SALT only encourages Sacramento to raise taxes. Over 10% sales tax in some areas and climbing constantly. Remember when it was 5% and considered high?
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
Pics or it didn't happen!
And by pics I mean the extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Besides the sales tax being over 10% in some areas. That's been the case for a while. California taxes consumption more than assets in comparison to other states, like TX, that tax assets more than consumption.
Still, California is on the low end in terms of state and local taxes paid compared to income.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/State_and_local_taxes_Per_capita_by_type.png
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I am totally fine with the current Los Angeles County sales tax and I voted for Measure M(?) to build more public transportation. Local and State income tax stays in my state to make it a better place to live while my federal income tax is being sent to other states and corporations to give them huge tax cut. That I am not okay.
I will be meeting with Nebraska House Representative Don Bacon tomorrow. He is member of the bipartisan Climate Solutions Caucus and speaking at a summit on conservation in Omaha. He is not totally for a carbon tax but more interested in pushing for more tax incentives on clean energy. I think he would be in full support of the $7,500 tax credit. It will be interesting on what he has to say.
K-MTG
Sunshade Captain of TMC
But the roads in California are still awful after all that tax money....even on the toll roads (133/73)
On my road trip to Arizona the I-10 has much better roads compared to the 5
On my road trip to Arizona the I-10 has much better roads compared to the 5
Electric700
Active Member
That's really promising news, thanks! Let's keep contacting our representatives and encourage them to let those measures stay.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Just so everyone (including me) is clear on this point.... So money that I earn that my state LEGALLY MANDATES for me to pay to the state..... is further taxed by the federal government?
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Just because California collects the tax for it doesn't mean that they will spend it on that. This latest increase in the gas tax is perfect evidence of that. We already had the largest gas tax income of any state before the increase and yet the roads are sh!t. The new tax will just go to the general fund and further squandered as is SOP in this state.
Merrill
Merrill
Yes I agree, I got involved in the potential new road fee program that California is supposed to implement next year. The first thing I wrote to the person in charge of the program was that what ever system they use for collection of money for road repair needs to be allocated for only road repair and not put in the general fund. She wrote back that the money collected from gas tax and this new program will go into the road maintenance fund and not the general fund. Yea, right! I do not mind paying for my fair share of maintaining the roads that I drive on but they have collected billions of dollars and I do not see the roads getting fixed. So where is that money going. Maybe the Dumb Train or other projects that the politicians who have friends who need this money.
If you are corp, you pay 9%? state income tax on income. Then $22,250 + 39% of the amount over 100,000 for the Fed, then personal income tax. So each dollar gets taxed 3 separate times. In California, the same car can be taxed an infinite number of times, then taxed every year it exists as well. That's the Over 3 Times.
Many government forms, even public schools, or business licenses ask you your race. Does it FREAKIN' MATTER??? What happened?
One of the biggest fights to get the Social Security Act passed was worry about privacy issues. It was revised to state that your SSN cannot be used for anything but SSN purposes. Now even newborn babies must have SSN numbers and pretty much every transaction today except cash involves you SSN directly or indirectly.
Firearm laws in California include making it a felony to possess a firearm that was 100% legal when purchased. Ex post facto.
If you get a traffic misdemeanor/citation/felony, the court can punish you for the crime, then the DMV can too. Both can issue different suspensions, and both can require monies to be paid. Double jeopardy. The cool thing is they are not synchronized. So if the bench deems a speeding ticket warrants a first time 30 day suspension, once that suspension is over, a few months later, the DMV can suspend your license again for it. So a simple speeding ticket can really cause havoc if you don't read the small print. The DMV 'fine' is a reinstatement fee. They don't really mention it, so the same ticket can also get you a Driving While Suspended without you knowing it. So triple jeopardy in some cases.
Non-citizens can get multiple IDs under different names in California due to the way they validate birth records. So they could get multiple monies from entitlements, etc. Yes, it is illegal for them to do that, but it is even cheaper and easier than becoming an illegal to begin with. There are some programs that are not available to citizens who file taxes that are available to undocumented people. They can vote without having to serve jury duty. Yes, illegal again, but I've never heard of anybody being punished when caught, and there have thousands in Orange County alone.
If you qualify for Earned Income Credit, you not only don't pay taxes, you get paid for not paying taxes. Some undocumented folk get several filings under different IDs.
I have to know who was paid to write a Wiki before I can judge the data. I routinely find bad information in PAC or Tort-based Wiki entries.
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Footnote to the 2017 graph from Wiki (we will ignore the fact nobody knows what taxes are collected for at least 7 more months for 2017:
California State Controller's Office: State Taxes Not a Wiki. 65% collected is personal income tax. Wiki says that is under 3% per capita. So >$65 billion collected is 3% of income. So over $54,000 average income rounded way down. The PER CAPITA (wiki graph) income in California is $30k.
Now remember, per capita in not median. Also note that taxable income <> income.
So I'd certainly say the use of the term "per capita" in the Wiki table for 2017 (cough) is a touch off.
You can tell, because 65% of the state income is personal income tax, yet the Wiki graph shows it at 11% (half of the 22% sales/use tax income the state actually collects).
Figures don't lie, but liars do figure.
There is a very good reason not to trust wiki on politically sensitive issues. A lot of the content today that has political overtones, or is related to lawsuits is written by paid consultants.
California State Controller's Office: State Taxes Not a Wiki. 65% collected is personal income tax. Wiki says that is under 3% per capita. So >$65 billion collected is 3% of income. So over $54,000 average income rounded way down. The PER CAPITA (wiki graph) income in California is $30k.
Now remember, per capita in not median. Also note that taxable income <> income.
So I'd certainly say the use of the term "per capita" in the Wiki table for 2017 (cough) is a touch off.
You can tell, because 65% of the state income is personal income tax, yet the Wiki graph shows it at 11% (half of the 22% sales/use tax income the state actually collects).
Figures don't lie, but liars do figure.
There is a very good reason not to trust wiki on politically sensitive issues. A lot of the content today that has political overtones, or is related to lawsuits is written by paid consultants.
Sparky
Member
There does seem to be some exceptionally bad roads. On the other hand I can't drive 5 miles in any direction without coming across road construction. I know in SoCal, I-5 and 710 has mucho truck traffic due to ports of entry and produce. Those big rigs do a lot of damage.
From DOT stats it appears Arizona diverts more of their road taxes than Calif. CA spends about 85% of what they collect on roads. The largest diversion of $ is towards public transportation. Not entirely unrelated.
More OT. Since my state has 2 Dem Senators, does it do any good to call them about supporting the EV credit? Do they have any input to the process?
Just for grins I called Sen. Harris' office and they said "thanks". Not sure I feel any better.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
My gut tells me that unless a democratic senator/house member is being actively courted by the GOP for passage of this bill, anything they say is literally hot air. I feel the GOP is feeling *serious* pressure to pass something significant this year, so this bill happens to fit that narrative. I hear lots of comments like "dead on arrival" and "no way they will pass it as is", "holidays are coming up" etc. But, if you believe my premise that they will pass something due to pressure.....well that means a tax bill gets passed! So, IMO, your energy is best used contacting GOP and courted dems. Ideally, any GOP congress members who have a history of being EV friendly are the best options because they have the highest change of actually listening to your suggestions/issues on this topic AND sharing it. Last point, again assuming my premise is correct that something gets past, you really need to concentrate of what changes they can make before they pass it. This means saying "I hate it" or "Don't pass it" leaves them no option other than ignoring you if they pass something. Decide of which things you'd like them to change and make those suggestions. The more people that actually do something the better; I'm just trying to shape what I think offers the best chance of affecting the end result.
Not that anyone asked, but my personal approach is: while I'm not happy about the State and Local Tax thing (especially being from highly taxed California), I'm only spending my energy and focus with my emails/phone calls on the EV credit front. To each their own.
I think I would call some other state's senators.
Our senators probably do not even know where California is on a map.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Without a doubt.
However, I think that focusing on one particular pet interest in this tax "reform" abomination plays right into the author's hands by letting them buy a few detractors. The bill is an unfunded giveaway to the rich and corporates. I think it is supremely important for the populace to understand that point and for our "representatives" to understand in no uncertain terms that we are not bamboozled by the spin.
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
Corporations being taxed before those profits go to their owners is a trade off for the benefits of incorporating (limited liability, etc...). Paying taxes to multiple government entities also isn't being taxed multiple times on the same dollar, at least not yet. As long as you can deduct your state income taxes from your federal AGI, there's no double taxation because the federal government isn't charging you taxes on the money you paid to the state government (this doesn't apply to fees though). Granted, if the house tax bill changes that, then there may actually be double taxation, but until that happens, and it survives challenges in court, we're good.
The CA DMV also doesn't tax cars, they charge fees for registration. If you don't want to pay those fees, don't register your car/s. I have a few cars that are PNO, and I only pay fees when they're registered. Paying sales tax is the same idea. We only pay when there's a transaction. No transaction, no sales tax. If you and a friend want to sell the same car to each other over and over, the state won't refuse your contributions to sales tax, but that's not being taxed indefinitely, it's based on each sale.
Changing firearms laws would only be ex post facto if the original purchase or possession prior to passage of the law was declared illegal. Regulating possession after the law goes into effect isn't ex post facto. The same would apply if you had a shed full of fireworks and the city passed a law banning possession of them. Possession of them is legal until the law goes into effect, and illegal after, possibly with some kind of grace period.
Sentences and/or penalties from different entities isn't double jeopardy. Someone can be involved in a state case, federal case, civil case, and have to pay for penalties to local entities, like the DMV in your example, for the same series of events. The cases and penalties will likely be based on different aspects of the laws those entities uphold. For example, a police officer who is drunk on duty and pulls over/assaults someone with no probable cause (grossly negligent) can be charged by the county for the assault, the federal government for a civil rights violation, the individual in civil court for damages, and have their license revoked by the DMV.
Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia
I believe different sovereign entities can also charge someone separately for the same crime, although they usually don't.
Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia
Tax fraud is awful, and while it's not surprising to imagine someone who is an illegal alien committing it, there are far more acts by US citizens than by illegal aliens.
Don't get me wrong, if you would rather have much higher property taxes and much lower sales/gas/etc taxes and lower fees, then other states like TX can provide that. From what I've seen, it's six of one, half a dozen of another. CA taxes consumption/transactions more, and other states like TX tax wealth (property) more.
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
I think that's just a regional thing. To me, the 133/73 are fine, but the 5/405 can be awful. It's a combination of higher freight (semi) density, which really tears things up, and even higher overall density (passenger cars), which makes significant alterations difficult. It also varies by county/resources. The 580 through Alameda is OK, but it's the worst in CA I've been on through San Joaquin.
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