kkillebrew
Banned
Anyone who does not understand that Big Oil is behind this jerk is missing the point. No need to argue about anything here.
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Senator asks Tesla to disable AP until they fix "anti-nag" tricks.
- Thread starter diplomat33
- Start date
Just for the record, I am completely against the idea of Tesla disabling AP. AP is a valuable and excellent driver assist when used properly. But I do think that Tesla should come up with an OTA software fix to stop the anti-nag cheats. Cheating the nags turns AP, which is normally a very safe, reliable and convenient driver assist, into a very unsafe system.
Ford is also going to include a camera driver monitor system in the Mach-E, although details are minimal right now.
I don't know about all the models, but the Model 3 has an inward facing cabin camera already. It is not active, but it is there waiting to be activated by a future software update.
I guess I can look forward to the day when I have to take my eyes off the road to fill in a captcha or whatever every 25 seconds because some Senator is afraid I might be taking a nap while driving.
It is a car. It is dangerous. That's why we're required to buy insurance and take tests before we drive them. Well, assuming we're driving legally, which tons of people do not.
Once cars can drive themselves I'm all for banning steering wheels in cars to prevent accidents, but until that day we're just going to have to deal with the fact that some idiots will find a way to defeat the system, and there is only so much you can do to stop them.
It is a car. It is dangerous. That's why we're required to buy insurance and take tests before we drive them. Well, assuming we're driving legally, which tons of people do not.
Once cars can drive themselves I'm all for banning steering wheels in cars to prevent accidents, but until that day we're just going to have to deal with the fact that some idiots will find a way to defeat the system, and there is only so much you can do to stop them.
Oh come on.
* Guns don't indiscriminately go out and kill people, and a lot of deaths are due to suicides. Firearms are used multiples more to save lives than used to take lives. There are no safeguards that can be used to prevent a nut job who wants to kill themselves, or others. Then you have that pesky 2A which guarantees the right to firearms ownership.
* I presume that you're talking about the 737 MAX and the MCAS that's gotten the bad rap? Not a death here in the US due to different standards of hiring and pilot training, not to mention the "company" purchasing a second AOA sensor along with a "disagree" light. In addition, the Lion Air incident started with a prior flight crew encounter a problem, and a dead legging pilot aboard showing the flight crew how to respond - which that same dead legging pilot was not on the subsequent flight which did crash. Not to mention flight certification is a very draconian beast, requiring not only reams of paperwork, but 40 hours of self-test before the FAA will allow the plane to be certified as even experimental. Now try to get a Part 91 or even Part 135 certification, you're talking a whole different slew of minimum equipment and TSO's.
Anyhow ... Tesla gives a feature to users which actually can be used to increase safety. Disabling a safety feature because some people want even more convenience is silly. Seat belts chime, you don't wear them. You have to have 10 oz of weight on the steering, so people want to disable the entire thing? How is that going to increase safety when you get back to accidents in traffic, increase in accidents after daylights savings, and sleepy drivers?
If the Senator genuinely cares about safety, he should require all automakers to install devices to prevent texting as well as dialing or receiving phone calls while driving. I fear the Senator is merely seeking publicity by singling out Tesla. Statistics show far more accidents from texting than from misuse of AP.
Have to admit, the gun analogy came to mind when I first saw the article. Thank you for posting. It’s a touchy subject, probably impossible to address calmly given the heavily dug in camps on either side. I still wonder if it is a good analogy, so here are some thoughts in reference to the numbered comments in the quote.
1. I presume that was a purely gun control related point, not intended to be part of the “senator, why don’t you rail against guns with the same ferocity as Tesla?”. No further comment.
2. Would very much like to see the data on that. But, can you also add “very much avoid injury than cause injury” to that point? Or was the senator only focused on potential lives lost? I suspect (no data I can point to) that AP has saved many many lives, injuries and damage. That data needs to be part of the discussion.
3. I presume this was meant to solidify the point that no amount of safeguarding built into AP will stop the idiots from circumventing it. A popular pro gun argument is “don’t make millions of responsible gun owns pay for the irresponsible few.” Sounds like an applicable analogy.
4. 2008 was the first time the Supreme Court ruled that despite state laws, individuals who were not part of a state militia did have the right to bear arms. Interpretation of 2A has changed over time. It may change again. Regardless, using it to avoid improvements consistent with changing technology and realities may be inappropriate. As for the relationship to AP, pressuring companies to constantly improve safety can’t be a bad thing.... till such measures impinge on your way of life ... even if there is no A2 equivalent.
Has the Senator actually checked to see if this trick to defeat the system actually works? Or is he calling NHTSA on the carpet because he saw a Youtube video? What he should be spending his efforts on is curbing the top speed of all vehicles. There is no need for anyone to drive 85mph; and there is no need for any vehicle to be able to go that fast. And how does he find time for this with 11 different committees investigating Trump?
Doubt it. More like:
"Hey Tesla - can you please hang up Autopilot for a while? MIT spinoff companies in my state are trying to catch up with you and to land contracts for autonomous driving"
2 Boston Companies Move To Put Passengers In Self-Driving Cars
Unless the human is intentionally moving the wheel, yeah, it does. It exerts the arm's weight in a downward direction from a single point where the arm is gripping.
Give it a year, I bet Tesla can do some serious Machine Learning™ to come up with a solution!
/s
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Maybe but I suspect an arm isn’t really dead weight in the same way an orange would be. It probably responds differently to bumps and turning of the wheel.
I'm pretty sure it is unless the person tenses up, though there might be differences in how much the resistance changes based on the rotation of the wheel... up until the person shifts his/her hands. But Autosteer won't turn the wheel far enough for that to matter, typically, so it's hard to judge that, and even if it weren't, it would take a long time to gather enough data to determine for sure that the weight is a defeat device, at which point the person will just shift the defeat device, and they'll be back to square one.
The right fix is to have a "stop nagging me" button. For people who are used to driving with both hands on the wheel, the increased level of nagging from late 2018 onwards is beyond annoying, to the point that the nags actually encourage people to put their hands in their laps and use a defeat device, i.e. they do the exact opposite of what they were intended to do.
I just wish it had real hands on wheel detection. I drive right hand at 12. I’m so used to driving that I automatically turn with the autopilot, not tug against it. The nag rarely detects my hand.
After a year, I still am not 100% perfect at the tug pressure to let the dumb nag know my hand is and always was on the wheel.
The jerk as the autopilot is disabled at a slightly too hard tug to remind autopilot that my hand is there is dangerously jarring. The flashing blue on the screen takes my eyes off the road.
Capacitive touch and or pressure sensing in the steering wheel would be great.
The only thing a cabin facing nanny cam is good for is getting covered with black gaffers tape. if the senator wants invasive video, how about he puts a web cam up in his office so we can see all the other stupid ways he wastes taxpayers money?
After a year, I still am not 100% perfect at the tug pressure to let the dumb nag know my hand is and always was on the wheel.
The jerk as the autopilot is disabled at a slightly too hard tug to remind autopilot that my hand is there is dangerously jarring. The flashing blue on the screen takes my eyes off the road.
Capacitive touch and or pressure sensing in the steering wheel would be great.
The only thing a cabin facing nanny cam is good for is getting covered with black gaffers tape. if the senator wants invasive video, how about he puts a web cam up in his office so we can see all the other stupid ways he wastes taxpayers money?
This is complete nonsense - Markey is just plain despicable. Remember that he fought against nuclear power for decades, and now is cashing in on global warming with the green new deal. Instead of talking about the 40,000 annual deaths from car accidents, he's worried about Autopilot??
Redmiata98
Member
YOU are responsible for everything when you get in the car and start driving. That is why you are licensed. The AP is an assistance device to make driving more accurate and less tiresome. The “nanny-nag” was added much later after introduction of AP. It was added and has become more and more restrictive due to the stupid things drivers were doing and the reaction to those stupid things. It has increased in restrictiveness to the point where AP is nearly useless.
DROP THE NANNY-NAG ALTOGETHER and give me back the AP functionality that I originally purchased!
DROP THE NANNY-NAG ALTOGETHER and give me back the AP functionality that I originally purchased!
Tam
Well-Known Member
The numbers show the opposite:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/
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FAKE NEWS!!!
Garbage, None of those things work!!!
I have autopilot and FSD and these are all lies and fake news.
