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Shopping for an ICE for my wife...

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+1. I don't understand why people get all excited owning multiple Teslas. It's quite limiting at this stage.
I’ve had my Tesla for 5 years now, it seems like just one or two. On the other hand, Elon’s been a part of my life for that 5 years and it seems very much longer. I’m growing weary of Elon. I’m tired of all the shoot from the hip policy changes, the supply line issues, the problems with service, and his antics in the news.

Perhaps new buyers should be a little wary of Elon. When you buy a Tesla, you get your own Elon to watch, and you get his shifting policies with which to live.

Don’t get me wrong, I have enormous respect for what he’s done, and his cars, especially his cars. Now I’d like his company to be responsive to those of us that have bought his cars, I’d like him to become serious about supporting the cars with a quick and responsive supply line. I’d like him to either get serious about this self driving stuff, or farm it out to someone who can do a proper job of it. If he wants to dig tunnels, shoot rockets, and put up thousands of satellites, fine, but turn over the car company to someone who cares, someone who can run it properly, and someone who’ll make it a full time job.
 
+1. I don't understand why people get all excited owning multiple Teslas. It's quite limiting at this stage.
For right now in our life, I think an EV makes the most sense, given how small our daily driving needs are.

It’s also very appealing to be a part of something new and exciting in the automotive industry. To have that much instant torque is also attractive to me.

I’ll start with one Tesla and perhaps get another in some time if the need arises. Let’s see how this one measures up first!
 
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Actually we've been doing 2EVs for a few months and we feel free to go anywhere we please especially with the current gas prices.
We have a Tesla and a plug-in hybrid SUV. Local trips are electric only. Road trips are a combination of electric/gas. No worries about potholes, flat tires, range anxiety, waiting at SCs, etc.

I have heard there is at least a 6 month wait for any Tesla repairs. I would not want my family to deal with all that extra stuff that comes w/ Tesla ownership.
 
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Gas is nearing $7 a gallon around here...
If you are buying a Tesla to save on gas, you should calculate the break even point. Suppose you pay an extra $20K for the Tesla. $20,000 will buy a lot of gas even at $7 a gallon. It’s 2,857 gallons. If you have a vehicle that gets 20 MPG, you can drive it over 57,000 miles on that gas. So that’s still not your breakeven, electric power is not free. You’ll likely be into it for 80,000 or so miles before the actual fuel break even. Of course there’s no oil to change. You’ll buy more tires. The Tesla is more fun. A dent is more costly to fix. A repair can take months. Insurance can be an issue. There’s lots to consider but gas price probably shouldn’t be the main justification for a Tesla purchase.
 
If you are buying a Tesla to save on gas, you should calculate the break even point. Suppose you pay an extra $20K for the Tesla. $20,000 will buy a lot of gas even at $7 a gallon. It’s 2,857 gallons. If you have a vehicle that gets 20 MPG, you can drive it over 57,000 miles on that gas. So that’s still not your breakeven, electric power is not free. You’ll likely be into it for 80,000 or so miles before the actual fuel break even. Of course there’s no oil to change. You’ll buy more tires. The Tesla is more fun. A dent is more costly to fix. A repair can take months. Insurance can be an issue. There’s lots to consider but gas price probably shouldn’t be the main justification for a Tesla purchase.
Why bother crap like this? Why must I buy a 20K cheaper ice car? WTF, lets make scenarios that fit a certain agenda? One could buy a bolt/leaf for over 28K, what are you gonna buiy a new ICE for 8K? /smh
 
I've had my MY since Feb 2022. It's been great so far in the 4100 miles I've put on it. Nothing has gone wrong. Our other car is a 2022 Sienna hybrid. 36 mpg and it often runs in EV mode at low speeds and even at higher speeds if you're really light on the throttle. 600+ mile range so it's the best of both worlds. My kids actually like the Sienna better than the MY because it's like sitting in first class in the back.

I didn't buy the MY to save gas or the environment whatsoever. My priorities were: cool, reasonably fast car. The fact that it "saves" on gas is just a side bonus. However, it seems ridiculous to me that anyone would say they bought a $60k+ car to "save on gas."
 
Why bother crap like this? Why must I buy a 20K cheaper ice car? WTF, lets make scenarios that fit a certain agenda? One could buy a bolt/leaf for over 28K, what are you gonna buiy a new ICE for 8K? /smh
‘Why bother”
You are in a thread dealing with someone buying a new Tesla. You brought up gas prices. That’s why.

I think you missed the point of the post. Your “WTF” bespeaks anger. If you didn’t want to include the impact of gas prices in a discussion of a new car purchase, then why did you bring it up?
 
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Why bother crap like this? Why must I buy a 20K cheaper ice car? WTF, lets make scenarios that fit a certain agenda? One could buy a bolt/leaf for over 28K, what are you gonna buiy a new ICE for 8K? /smh

Let's be honest... the same level of car that a Model Y offers - is $20K less in gas form. A top trim $50K compact SUV buys you serious luxury. Heck... you can move up to a top-trim 3 row SUV for $50K in the Telluride that is completely loaded with features that the Model Y does not have.

As for $28K.. you could buy a much better top-trim ICE car like a Corolla Cross, Kona, Niro, etc.
 
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If you are buying a Tesla to save on gas, you should calculate the break even point. Suppose you pay an extra $20K for the Tesla.
That would be the same as saying paying an extra $20k for a Benz or BMW over a Honda or Toyota. This isn’t how most people think. They look at how much they want to spend, say $46,000 and then see what car they can get for that price. Two years a ago, a model Y did fall into that range as well as a BMW X, Mercedes GLC, Lexus RX etc. people compare cars in costs, not cars that have similarities, but huge differences in price.

Tesla is unusual in that people have a tendency to compare them to cars like accords, camry’s, RaV4’s and CRV’s but that’s only if the Tesla is viewed as that same class of car. It really isn’t, and shouldn’t be. The very fact that orders are full up to next year is proof that these cars are high demand and worth their price, which is that of luxury vehicles, not high-value basic vehicles.

I know the luxury part is arguable, but I see it as a “different” type of luxury. Things other automakers don’t have, kind of luxury.
 
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That would be the same as saying paying an extra $20k for a Benz or BMW over a Honda or Toyota. This isn’t how most people think. They look at how much they want to spend, say $46,000 and then see what car they can get for that price. Two years a ago, a model Y did fall into that range as well as a BMW X, Mercedes GLC, Lexus RX etc. people compare cars in costs, not cars that have similarities, but huge differences in price.

Tesla is unusual in that people have a tendency to compare them to cars like accords, camry’s, RaV4’s and CRV’s but that’s only if the Tesla is viewed as that same class of car. It really isn’t, and shouldn’t be. The very fact that orders are full up to next year is proof that these cars are high demand and worth their price, which is that of luxury vehicles, not high-value basic vehicles.

I know the luxury part is arguable, but I see it as a “different” type of luxury. Things other automakers don’t have, kind of luxury.
Model Ys are still pretty basic vehicles. Luxury it ain't.

Using your logic about worth their price then markups + MSRP is valid indicator of total value.

Look at some other EVs like the Mach-E GTPE which often sell for $10K over MSRP ($72K) and Tellurides ($50K MSRP+ $15K markup). And it's not like Tellurides are rare - Kia made 100K of them at the Georgia plant in 2021. Wait times are actually longer than the Teslas. 12 months is not unheard of. I was told 6-8 months for mine.
 
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If you are buying a Tesla to save on gas, you should calculate the break even point. Suppose you pay an extra $20K for the Tesla. $20,000 will buy a lot of gas even at $7 a gallon. It’s 2,857 gallons. If you have a vehicle that gets 20 MPG, you can drive it over 57,000 miles on that gas. So that’s still not your breakeven, electric power is not free. You’ll likely be into it for 80,000 or so miles before the actual fuel break even. Of course there’s no oil to change. You’ll buy more tires. The Tesla is more fun. A dent is more costly to fix. A repair can take months. Insurance can be an issue. There’s lots to consider but gas price probably shouldn’t be the main justification for a Tesla purchase.

1st World Problems: I don't like spending $250/ month on fuel, so I'll spend $70K, either lowering my possible investment capital by $77K after taxes, or instead pick up a $1,200/ month payment, to exchange that $250 fuel bill for an extra $50 electric bill, doubling my tire expenditures, increasing insurance costs, poor service, very high out of pocket repair costs post warranty, and difficult travel. Never mind restarting the depreciation curve if you are getting rid of an already depreciated vehicle.

Yah, that makes total economic sense...

EV's are awesome to drive for certain, but cost savers they are not. The Bolt, if you have the correct situation for one, is about the only EV that could potentially save someone money over a comparable car.

Cue the downvotes. ;)
 
We have a Tesla and a plug-in hybrid SUV. Local trips are electric only. Road trips are a combination of electric/gas. No worries about potholes, flat tires, range anxiety, waiting at SCs, etc.

I have heard there is at least a 6 month wait for any Tesla repairs. I would not want my family to deal with all that extra stuff that comes w/ Tesla ownership.
So you're saying that Both Tesla's will break down at the same time, and it will take months to get either of them repaired and back on the road. Really??????
 
1st World Problems: I don't like spending $250/ month on fuel, so I'll spend $70K, either lowering my possible investment capital by $77K after taxes, or instead pick up a $1,200/ month payment, to exchange that $250 fuel bill for an extra $50 electric bill, doubling my tire expenditures, increasing insurance costs, poor service, very high out of pocket repair costs post warranty, and difficult travel. Never mind restarting the depreciation curve if you are getting rid of an already depreciated vehicle.

Yah, that makes total economic sense...

EV's are awesome to drive for certain, but cost savers they are not. The Bolt, if you have the correct situation for one, is about the only EV that could potentially save someone money over a comparable car.

Cue the downvotes. ;)
Well if the only thing that counted about a vehicle purchase was the "Economics" I would just drive a used 1985 Yugo. No Thanks.
 
I think he's saying that his family can't ever become a 1 car family for an extended period of time.
Well by his own statement he owns a Tesla and a Plug in Hybrid, therefore he's doomed to have his Tesla breakdown and it will take months to get any repair on it. Therefore he's already going to be a 1 car family for an extended period. I had my entire front motor and sub-assembly replaced do to debris in the road and it took less than about a week, so let's just say this has not been my experience. Also any supply chain issues are global, effecting all manufacturers. His post is a simple FUD troll post.
 
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Using your logic about worth their price then markups + MSRP is valid indicator of total value.

Look at some other EVs like the Mach-E GTPE which often sell for $10K over MSRP ($72K) and Tellurides ($50K MSRP+ $15K markup). And it's not like Tellurides are rare - Kia made 100K of them at the Georgia plant in 2021. Wait times are actually longer than the Teslas. 12 months is not unheard of. I was told 6-8 months for mine.
I would not suggest someone pay over MSRP for a vehicle. If they do, they should realize that the extra cost will probably not be returned to them when they sell the car. The problem is that the current supply/demand imbalance will be reconciled over the next few years then the car price will return to MSRP and used prices will again be derived from that MSRP. If one pays $10K, for example, above MSRP for the vehicle during a time of high demand, then sells the vehicle when that unordinary demand has resolved, the person will lose the entire markup plus all the depreciation. Depreciation is hellishly expensive anyway and the loss of that extra dealer markup makes the cost of ownership much more expensive. The exception might be if one plans to keep the vehicle until the wheels drop off, then that additional cost will be amortized over the service life of the vehicle. In our case we ordered and got a Telluride for MSRP. Additionally we tend to keep vehicles until they are of voting age.

The previous discussion of gas prices vs the extra one pays for an electric is based on a similar discussion and similar concerns that were present when I was in college half a century ago. At that time popular cars were large thirsty Detroit products. A gas crisis hit and many people were suddenly trading their land yachts for small, more gas efficient cars. The small cars sold at a hefty premium and you could barely give away those huge gas guzzlers. A similar analysis demonstrated that if one traded in the large car and purchased the smaller one, the gas savings payback time exceeded the likely useful life of the new small car. On the other hand for the college student, the purchase of a large car was a veritable bargain for reliable transportation, in spite of the more expensive fuel. Since the large cars were worth less, insurance was cheaper. Parts were plentiful. The large cars were safer as well. When tests are done evaluating crash data, they never crash small cars into big ones because the difference in mass makes the larger vehicle much safer. In those days dollars mattered to a lot of us, and to me especially.

Many people didn’t make the analysis back then. They reacted vicerally, bought the expensive smaller car, and paid money they’d never get back. I see some people not making the analysis now. They react to $7 gas impulsively.

I don’t suggest people should not buy any car they want. I don’t suggest fuel costs should play a primary part in every new car decision. It is a cost like any other, so may be important and if so is worthy of a look.

If gas savings is the prime motivation for the trade, then one should look realistically at that gas savings, the initial cost of those savings, and see if the return is actually going to provide the savings anticipated. It may help with lease vs purchase decisions, and it may help with determining what one buys and how often one plans to trade cars. If gas prices are irrelevant to the decision, then just ignore this.
 
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‘Why bother”
You are in a thread dealing with someone buying a new Tesla. You brought up gas prices. That’s why.

I think you missed the point of the post. Your “WTF” bespeaks anger. If you didn’t want to include the impact of gas prices in a discussion of a new car purchase, then why did you bring it up?
This thread has been about nothing but randomness for pages. Your reply is typical BS, framed to fit your silly point in framing gas costs vs car vs ev, stupidiness. I brought up gas prices because the prices are freaking insane. You took that as an invitation to regurgitate anti EV agenda lines. Good job. :rolleyes:
 
Let's be honest... the same level of car that a Model Y offers - is $20K less in gas form. A top trim $50K compact SUV buys you serious luxury. Heck... you can move up to a top-trim 3 row SUV for $50K in the Telluride that is completely loaded with features that the Model Y does not have.

As for $28K.. you could buy a much better top-trim ICE car like a Corolla Cross, Kona, Niro, etc.
Please don't go down this idiotic rabbit hole. If one is about budet, one can get a cheaper EV and save. I didn't buy the MYP for luxury or one aspect over another. Its the whole package. And I would not have thought to buy a cheaper ICE vs the MYP, so I can save 20K which is a number made up for a BS fabricated argument. And then spend that 20K on gas for however long. I've never thought like that. And on the matter of cars, the cars I compared the MYP to are not 50K, luxo barges, those are the last freaking SUV's I'm interested in. The MYP for ex. competes against the likes of the AMG GLC 63 or BMW X3 M which are more expensive.
 
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Well by his own statement he owns a Tesla and a Plug in Hybrid, therefore he's doomed to have his Tesla breakdown and it will take months to get any repair on it. Therefore he's already going to be a 1 car family for an extended period. I had my entire front motor and sub-assembly replaced do to debris in the road and it took less than about a week, so let's just say this has not been my experience. Also any supply chain issues are global, effecting all manufacturers. His post is a simple FUD troll post.
Hey fanboy, relax. I'm saying why limit yourself when there are other great options available especially for my family? I can deal with the quirks (and frustrations) of owning a Tesla but I would not impose that on my wife.