Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2013

[mynameisjim]

I never let taxes affect my trading decisions unless I am just a month or two away from LTCG. Otherwise, I do what I feel is best and then pay the taxes if I have to.

I agree and I don't really mind paying taxes. If it's the right trading decision to do I do it.

 

[GenIIIBuyer]

Just realized that Elon Musk has another motive to reach Mars, tax implications of his Tesla shares... haha

 

[mitch672]

Just realized that Elon Musk has another motive to reach Mars, tax implications of his Tesla shares... haha

I'm betting the first bureaucracy that gets setup on Mars - IRS Mars branch

 

[InTheShadows]

I never let taxes affect my trading decisions unless I am just a month or two away from LTCG. Otherwise, I do what I feel is best and then pay the taxes if I have to.

What about switching to LIFO to try to combat that if you have been buying on the way up.

 

[kevin99]

I've already been caught out once trying to time the swings, cost me about 20% in gains. So, throw in the significant tax hit I take I would need to time it perfectly and even then I may come out worse off. I don't have enough cash to hedge all of my position. What about selling some calls and if I get caught at least I made a little more on my way out? I've been very tempted to turn my stock into jan 15 leaps but again, the tax hit makes me hesitate.

The key element affecting my brokerage account performance is holding of the LEAP and shares. While it is the best strategy overall, it compares very poorly to my 401k account that I was able to trade primarily 2-6 months out options. (Warning: I strongly against short term options less than one month, because you have to be perfectly right about everything) i.e. I still have my Sep call $160 right before Q2 ER at cost of $4, today is at $18! Albeit this needs to deduct my cover call cost so overall gain is less. Nevertheless none of my LEAP position gives this kind of overall performance.

Yes I think you are right in general it is very hard to beat the tax difference and cost of swing. I might end up making less, or loss more. But heck TSLA is special, it has done many things impossible.

However not recognizing the opportunity is as being costly as overly exuberant. Warning: This is for very experienced trader only. I am in no way encouraging others to do so.

---Correction---

Actually I spoke too fast.
My long call is Sep 13 @135, bought at $6 before Q2 ER, current price $35, gain of $29
My hedge position is Spe 13 @$160, sold at $4 after Q2 ER, current price $15, loss of $-11

Overall gain : $6 -> $18, 300%

 

[AlMc]

I never let taxes affect my trading decisions unless I am just a month or two away from LTCG. Otherwise, I do what I feel is best and then pay the taxes if I have to.

My accountant's comments: Stop complaining about paying taxes on gains....at least you have gains!

 

[aznt1217]

Little tid bit. Over the weekend, I just spoke to an attorney and he said his wife is clamoring for the Model S after hearing about the safety rating and wants to go solar... he knew about Tesla because he knows me but his wife never heard of it. I suspect this is happening across the nation.

 

[SuryaDham]

I've already been caught out once trying to time the swings, cost me about 20% in gains. So, throw in the significant tax hit I take I would need to time it perfectly and even then I may come out worse off. I don't have enough cash to hedge all of my position. What about selling some calls and if I get caught at least I made a little more on my way out? I've been very tempted to turn my stock into jan 15 leaps but again, the tax hit makes me hesitate.

Made exactly the same experience. Sold some after a runup in the 90s and bought back around 115 or so...
Sold JAN covered calls 200-220, averaging since friday (would have better started only today, but who would have predicted such a runup for today...? ). For me it's a good strategy, hoping to buy them back at a dip, or worst case being called away between 200-220 (incuding premium would average me a selling price around 215 or so...I'm okay with that as well.

 

[NuclearPowered]

I've already been caught out once trying to time the swings, cost me about 20% in gains. So, throw in the significant tax hit I take I would need to time it perfectly and even then I may come out worse off. I don't have enough cash to hedge all of my position. What about selling some calls and if I get caught at least I made a little more on my way out? I've been very tempted to turn my stock into jan 15 leaps but again, the tax hit makes me hesitate.

Don't try and time the swings. It is not worth it. I have missed this 150-170 run and now have almost no idea what level is appropriate to buy back in. Deer in headlights, as some have said. Going into a coma for the past 6 months would have been better for me, gains wise.

 

[gaswalla]

My accountant's comments: Stop complaining about paying taxes on gains....at least you have gains!

That's the difference between an accountant and a tax attorney

 

[Benz]

Hi all,

First time poster, decently-timed lurker. Love you guys for the awesome material I get to read everyday.

So I got into TSLA starting at about $35 with a pretty small position back in March or so. This was after some decent research about the company and Elon. As the news starting rolling about profitability in the first quarter, I went on this ridiculous reading rampage (which continues today) about everything Elon and Tesla. In other words, I'm 100% sold on his vision and the potential of Tesla. I think we are truly at an inflection point and there is no coming back from the avalanche. However, I would like some advice, if possible, from the awesome group that is this forum.

My initial goal getting into stock trading earlier in the year was so that I could come up with enough earnings to cover the closing costs for a new home (I'm 26 and looking for a first time purchase). I started with DDD, ONVO, TSLA, XONE, SSYS, SCTY, AAPL, and TRTC. Needless to say, I've had a killer year so far (save for TRTC and to an extend AAPL, although lately I've been in the green with them). I'm nearing a stage where instead of paying for the closing fees, I can fund the entirety of my down-payment through my winnings. However, I have this nagging feeling that if I sell now, I will miss on an epic, historic run for TSLA that will land it in the thousands in 5-10 years time.

Anyway, I need some advise from the more experienced and level-headed. Am I getting too greedy? Should I wait a little longer and see where I land? Should I just live with my parents until I die?

Thanks very much!

EDIT: Changed mortgage to down-payment. I WISH IT WAS THE MORTGAGE!!!

Whatever info you will get, please do remember one thing, and that is that it will always be your own decision (whatever your decide to do)!!!

Ask yourself:
How much risk are you willing to take?
How much certainty do you want?
Are you willing to bet the farm?
How much more can it go further up?
How much can you "predict"?
How much do you believe?
How much further are you willing to go (without knowing what the future is going to be)?

My friend, it's all up to yourself. But I can tell you one thing, and that is that people are betting the farm. Some are even betting other people's farms as well. It's an epic story, and it sure is very exiting, I can tell you that.

Do you want to know my prediction?
Tesla Motors will be bigger than Google or Apple by 2020.

 

[sub]

I'm new to all of this so I appreciate you guys putting up with some of my stupid questions that I only realized were idiotic after I posted them and had time to do more reading. Here is another thought. I'm long TSLA, I do not want to give up leverage at all. What if I sold some Jan 15 leaps at say $250. That covers some downside (I don't plan to sell anyways) and if it hits 250 I can just replace my shares at that price and not risk them getting called away? Instead of buying back the leaps at a premium, is that a good idea if I have the cash to replace at the strike price so I lose no leverage? Slap me if i'm being stupid again lol.

Edit - this would also allow me to play a downswing and buy back the leaps correct?

 

[brianstorms]

Sold a small fraction of my TSLA holdings this morning at 170 (I'd bought them at 30). I pick up my Model S on Thursday!

And now I put the rest of my TSLA shares into long-term storage. Maybe I'll dust 'em off when TSLA hits $2000

 

[kevin99]

Sold a small fraction of my TSLA holdings this morning at 170 (I'd bought them at 30). I pick up my Model S on Thursday!

And now I put the rest of my TSLA shares into long-term storage. Maybe I'll dust 'em off when TSLA hits $2000.

Congratulations! Tesla Investor & Owner, that is the sweetest title you can have right now.

Your Model S config is almost identical to mine, except I have the non-gloss interior.

 

[sleepyhead]

What about switching to LIFO to try to combat that if you have been buying on the way up.

Yes, I do this but will not hold on to position for another 6 months just to avoid stcg if I am ready to sell today.

 

[skandy]

Made exactly the same experience. Sold some after a runup in the 90s and bought back around 115 or so...

I did the same, sold at 85 and re-bought at 95. Decided to just enjoy the run since then and wait till it's around $300

 

[hj-45]

Little tid bit. Over the weekend, I just spoke to an attorney and he said his wife is clamoring for the Model S after hearing about the safety rating and wants to go solar... he knew about Tesla because he knows me but his wife never heard of it. I suspect this is happening across the nation.

One of my co-workers says the safety news was the final straw for his wife. He is scheduling a test drive and hopes to finally order a 60kwh.

 

[mitch672]

I'm new to all of this so I appreciate you guys putting up with some of my stupid questions that I only realized were idiotic after I posted them and had time to do more reading. Here is another thought. I'm long TSLA, I do not want to give up leverage at all. What if I sold some Jan 15 leaps at say $250. That covers some downside (I don't plan to sell anyways) and if it hits 250 I can just replace my shares at that price and not risk them getting called away? Instead of buying back the leaps at a premium, is that a good idea if I have the cash to replace at the strike price so I lose no leverage? Slap me if i'm being stupid again lol.

Edit - this would also allow me to play a downswing and buy back the leaps correct?

Selling covered calls IS the definition of giving up some upside potential. Do not chase it, is my advise.
I sold Jan14 $165 covered calls, if I buy them back at a loss, it's like giving back $9 of profit right now.
If you wait until they expire, your shares are called away (sold) at the strike price, and you keep the premium.
Trying to buy them back when they are in the money won't get you anywhere... At least that's how I see it.
In the event of a pull back, you might still be able to close out the covered calls for less than you sold them for, so don't panic.

 

[callmesam]

I don't post often to this thread (but I read it 5 days a week). I am a Tesla investor and owner. I've made enough in my self directed IRA to buy two MS 60's like the one I picked up at the factory.

But I have no intention of selling the shares until Elon announces he's leaving to do Space X full-time.

I haven't taken advantage of leverage, calls, puts or any other "exotic" transaction. Just kept adding shares since May 2012. When EM purchased 100M @ 93, I sold GOOG @900 and threw the rest of the account into TSLA.

Thanks for the hours of entertainment and education this forum offers.

Sam

 

[gene]

I did the same, sold at 85 and re-bought at 95. Decided to just enjoy the run since then and wait till it's around $300

Everytime I tried to make some money on short swings, I'd end up buying back higher. Since $48, I just add and add stock on the dips. Not selling until Model E.