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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2014

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3500 registered sold into China with gov since March. Only 1000 registered a license plate. Speculation is that these are cars returned by user. Mostly P85.

In China, lots of people doing the iphone scalper trade with Model S. They used multiple ID to buy 100 cars or more. They discovered that the demand is not that high. Barely 1 phone inquiry a day. My guess is that these model S on sale at the website are scalper cars. Even thoug Elon said Tesla does. not allow this, the website uses the fact that the ads are still there to prove that Tesla China is doing business with them.

My interpretation is that there are no legal way for Tesla to go after them in China so it gives the scalpers and the website some legitimacy with their argument. It's not being taken down by the law, therefore it must be legit.
 
If these China FUD reports had even a shred of truth to them they'd really call into question Elon's glowing statements over last few months about how huge, gigantic, awesome, terrific, and just plain swell the size of the China market is for Tesla, don't you think?
 
Well, just based on comments I've read on this forum, I'd say they probably have a handfull of P85's that are available for immediate delivery. There were a bunch that landed at the port about the same time as the D event, and the owners were upset. I'm sure Tesla did the right thing to satisfy them and offered to let them back in line if they wanted to change to P85D because they were so vocal about waiting for years and then having the event make their cars "old" on delivery day. I don't know if any of this is true (I just made it up), just speculation, but if could account for a handful of cars that are available for immediate delivery and does not have anything to do with demand since all the customers just got back in line for a newer model. The rest of the article seems to have as much fabrication as what I just did above, so its hard to believe any of what was written.
 
"Zhang said that he has to sell the ModelSP85 electric car for 10,000 yuan ($1,635) less than Tesla's official price."

I'm trying to picture someone paying the price of a P85 and bickering over $1600? I guess that guy's not going to get a full XPel treatment........

I can't believe they think this is official Tesla communication. That's just straight up crazy
 
Baron's bet, 10X SP in 10 yrs, market cap of $100B in 5 yrs. Short video with some good points.
Barons 10 times bet on Tesla | Watch the video - Yahoo Finance
Most markets are up today, should bode well for TSLA.
Very nice. So Barons holds about 1M shares.

Interesting that in 1910 electricity was more expensive than gas. I suspect this was because the electrical grid was not built up and paid for at that time. Moreover, if gas is cheaper than electricity, then you could potentially do better buy buying a gas generator and making power locally. Of course this assumes you could buy a gas generator at a reasonable price. In either case, guys like Ford could make money putting ICE in either cars or stationary for electricity. Sound familiar? Fast forward to today and modern grids are much more efficient than ICE. Electricity is about a quarter the cost of gas on a delivered power basis. So Tesla with its battery packs can make money both in cars and stationary applications.

At a fundamental level, Tesla is an arbitrage play. There are essentially two different energy markets: electricity and transportation fuels markets. While there is some overlap such as heating oil competing with NG and electricity and NG in transportation, that overlap is not enough to close the price gap between oil and electricity. For example, in this country oil is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as NG on a per unit energy basis. This price gap create a huge potential for arbitrage. Tesla is creating an attractive product with compelling technology that brings cheap electricity into the transportation fuel market. So long as oil is more expensive than electricity, Tesla will be able to tap this arbitrage opportunity. Basically the price of oil needs to drop to about $25/bbl to close this gap, a price level well below that which would put all fracking and deep water production out of business. I suspect that Saudi Arabia understands this threat. For them, curtailing production today means more stranded assets in 20 years. They need to sell oil like its going out of style because it is. The only way for the Saudis to divest is to maximize production today so long as fracker keep drilling for oil.

This is why the most important thing for Tesla to do today is to accelerate the Gigafactory. Whether the Model X comes out any time next year or annual sales are less than 33k this year, really does not matter to the fundamental economic opportunity before them. Cheap battery packs will arb the hell out of oil.
 
Very nice. So Barons holds about 1M shares.

Interesting that in 1910 electricity was more expensive than gas. I suspect this was because the electrical grid was not built up and paid for at that time. Moreover, if gas is cheaper than electricity, then you could potentially do better buy buying a gas generator and making power locally. Of course this assumes you could buy a gas generator at a reasonable price. In either case, guys like Ford could make money putting ICE in either cars or stationary for electricity. Sound familiar? Fast forward to today and modern grids are much more efficient than ICE. Electricity is about a quarter the cost of gas on a delivered power basis. So Tesla with its battery packs can make money both in cars and stationary applications.

At a fundamental level, Tesla is an arbitrage play. There are essentially two different energy markets: electricity and transportation fuels markets. While there is some overlap such as heating oil competing with NG and electricity and NG in transportation, that overlap is not enough to close the price gap between oil and electricity. For example, in this country oil is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as NG on a per unit energy basis. This price gap create a huge potential for arbitrage. Tesla is creating an attractive product with compelling technology that brings cheap electricity into the transportation fuel market. So long as oil is more expensive than electricity, Tesla will be able to tap this arbitrage opportunity. Basically the price of oil needs to drop to about $25/bbl to close this gap, a price level well below that which would put all fracking and deep water production out of business. I suspect that Saudi Arabia understands this threat. For them, curtailing production today means more stranded assets in 20 years. They need to sell oil like its going out of style because it is. The only way for the Saudis to divest is to maximize production today so long as fracker keep drilling for oil.

This is why the most important thing for Tesla to do today is to accelerate the Gigafactory. Whether the Model X comes out any time next year or annual sales are less than 33k this year, really does not matter to the fundamental economic opportunity before them. Cheap battery packs will arb the hell out of oil.

Great post. :)
 
Very nice. So Barons holds about 1M shares.

Interesting that in 1910 electricity was more expensive than gas. I suspect this was because the electrical grid was not built up and paid for at that time. Moreover, if gas is cheaper than electricity, then you could potentially do better buy buying a gas generator and making power locally. Of course this assumes you could buy a gas generator at a reasonable price. In either case, guys like Ford could make money putting ICE in either cars or stationary for electricity. Sound familiar? Fast forward to today and modern grids are much more efficient than ICE. Electricity is about a quarter the cost of gas on a delivered power basis. So Tesla with its battery packs can make money both in cars and stationary applications.

At a fundamental level, Tesla is an arbitrage play. There are essentially two different energy markets: electricity and transportation fuels markets. While there is some overlap such as heating oil competing with NG and electricity and NG in transportation, that overlap is not enough to close the price gap between oil and electricity. For example, in this country oil is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as NG on a per unit energy basis. This price gap create a huge potential for arbitrage. Tesla is creating an attractive product with compelling technology that brings cheap electricity into the transportation fuel market. So long as oil is more expensive than electricity, Tesla will be able to tap this arbitrage opportunity. Basically the price of oil needs to drop to about $25/bbl to close this gap, a price level well below that which would put all fracking and deep water production out of business. I suspect that Saudi Arabia understands this threat. For them, curtailing production today means more stranded assets in 20 years. They need to sell oil like its going out of style because it is. The only way for the Saudis to divest is to maximize production today so long as fracker keep drilling for oil.

This is why the most important thing for Tesla to do today is to accelerate the Gigafactory. Whether the Model X comes out any time next year or annual sales are less than 33k this year, really does not matter to the fundamental economic opportunity before them. Cheap battery packs will arb the hell out of oil.

Well said! I am not sure that is the motivation behind the Saudi play, but if they aren't thinking about it then should be.

Of note, I think that Saudi would be about the only place left to get oil if they had to drop the prices down to 25$/bbl. It would certainly be a losing venture for just about anyone else.
 
Another thing about Barons going into Tesla 1M shares and Ron Baron talking about it is that this is signalling. This is a big institutional investor telling other to jump on board. So I suspect more institutional investors to quietly buy in, then blab about it on CNBC. Buckle up.
 
Great post jhm!

"They Saudis have to sell oil like it's going out of style, because it is."

An excellent sentence that I will use in future discussions.
Johan, I think I've heard that Norwegian sovereign wealth is starting to divest from fossil fuels. Is that correct? Of course the stated rationale is that climate change politics will leave stranded assets and it's the right thing to do. While I accept that at face value, I also think that all fossil fuels will be economically disrupted by combination of batteries, solar and other renewables. So whether the politics of climate change succeed or not (and the success of batteries and renewable will reinforce the politics), massive fossil fuel assets will be stranded. It behooves any investor to consider divestment strategies. For me personally, I limit my exposure to index funds because fossil fuels factor so large in them, and then of course I invest in the disrupters, especially Tesla. But for players like the Saudis, divestment strategies are much more complex. They've got to get oil out of reserves before it loses value. Buying the likes of Tesla could be a cute hedge, but it is not anywhere on the same scale, $35B market cap versus oil reserves worth multiple trillions of dollars. I think we'll see entities controlling massive oil reserves increasingly compete for market share because that's the only way they can divest their reserves. Meanwhile sovereign wealth from oil needs to invest in the disrupters as a hedge, even if it is not at an adequate scale to fully hedge assets in the ground. So the economics of divestment will be fascinating. Institutions that have the greatest need to hedge disruption may find themselves investing in disruption.
 
Great post jhm!

"They Saudis have to sell oil like it's going out of style, because it is."

An excellent sentence that I will use in future discussions.

Probably getting off topic, but anyway...

Numerous reputable papers have stated that we really need to leave about 2/3rds of the fossil fuels remaining in the current reserves in the ground, if we want to avoid catastrophic environmental change. So it actually makes sense for the Saudis, who still have the cheapest available oil, to make sure that it's theirs that gets taken out and sold, before the global slowdown or moratorium on drilling kicks in. This ensures that other people are the ones whose oil doesn't get pumped, now or ever.
 
Baron's bet, 10X SP in 10 yrs, market cap of $100B in 5 yrs. Short video with some good points.
Barons 10 times bet on Tesla | Watch the video - Yahoo Finance
Most markets are up today, should bode well for TSLA.

Almost exactly the valuation estimates I have too, he seems like a reasonable man. With 500k/y production in 5 years Tesla should have around $35B in revenues with a relatively high margin, which I think will turn them a net profit of around $3,5B with a high R&D spend too. $100B mkt cap would give then a P/E of 28,5 which seems reasonable for such a strong company with a high growth and probably very low debt.

Edit: Had gotten some numbers wrong the first time.
 
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