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Ulmo
Active Member
Right, and in my opinion I think we can win with this Congress and President, but it will take a new way of thinking across partisan lines that were drawn in the sand by the likes of SJW's and stuff. Even Mitch who I respect greatly is taken aback by these lines, lines I'm willing to cross if it means saving the world and humanity from itself.
Oh, and I'm sober about the quickness of that process, especially if Elon keeps taking jabs at Trump's EPA selection on twitter. Perhaps Jack Dorsey is right, that Elon's twitter is sort of a way that he expresses his inner thoughts, and his businessman approach will be all that is necessary, but Trump is a tweeter too. Let's see how they see each other in real life.
As for constituents, almost all of the public in this country want a good environment, regardless of their political voting. If we cast any kind of proper future in the right logical way, that is what will happen, regardless of the politics. Sometimes the mishmash that happens to get there needs a bit of connecting the dots to get it done, though.
Here's an example: China wants USA's land. China wants clean air. Trump says hey, no to the land, but if Elon has a bit of Trump's ear, then Trump can tell China OK you get to clean up your air, if you let us clean up ours. It's a compromise. It's a business deal. On the ground, China will still sell a handful of EV's in USA and Tesla will sell some even number in China, but in the end, the changes in growth and stuff will be adjusted according to the business deals. It's a compromise. It's one the world can live with. It is messy but real. But, if we take the jump off the cliff side of everything, and either on the one hand pretend China doesn't want our land or on the other hand say that borders don't matter, and at the same time, try to punish those who are not Democrats who are trying to save the environment by not allowing them to save the environment when Republicans are in power, then we are taking the wrong path. I think that's the difference between sensible realism and getting along, and --- well, something else. I don't need to put too fine a point on it (every time). Edit: rethinking this, I am thinking Trump saying "We want deal!" --- perhaps the deal will be different, but if we do it right, it can help us, not hurt us.
This is one time in history I think long-term stock price (and short term reactions) and environmental future are loosely related. I'd still welcome my messages on this being moved to another thread, though. I feel like the rest of TMC forums are for people who have already decided to be part of a good future, by buying their own EV, PW, or TR.
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What nice, flowery language in the face of the revival of the keystone pipeline.
3Victoria
Active Member
. From a short and intermediate term stock standpoint, Tesla faces a potential "triple witching" effect.
1. De-emphasis on renewable energy at the national level and some inherent bias against Tesla (or at minimum, no encouragement, accommodation or support). Remember, Tesla is still the last shining city on a hill from Obama's clean energy loan guarantee program (Started under Bush....Solyndra....you know the story). Anything Obama = Bad....regardless of "Great Again", "American Exceptionalism" or support for US manufacturing, politicians with an (R) behind their name would like nothing better than to urinate on Tesla from a high place.
2. The Capital Markets. Wish we could have gotten another Capital raise in. Tesla needs Capital to grow and the debt markets may be facing an interest rate increase in December, or the spike in Treasuries/Bond Yields may make debt funding less attractive. As for an equity raise, the election/SCTY acquisition has already dropped the stock price materially from the last 215 price. With the S&P P/E hovering around 25 in an earnings recession and stock buybacks becoming harder to fund with "free" money, my hopes of a bull market similar to 2013 are minuscule. For those investing now on the hope of a Trumpian fiscal stimulus, we are realistically 9-12 months out from passing any stimulus, which would then realistically take 12-18 months to impact the economy. If Icahn, et al believe that the gifted economic theorist that is Donald Trump has a solution for low global growth that is not currently being implemented by every central banker and economist worldwide, then they should feel free to leave a party and bet $1Billion on a continuation of an exhausted bull market. For my money, protectionism and saber rattling are not solutions to a global growth malaise.
3. International Markets. There is a current upswing in nationalism and protectionist policies (Brexit, Trump, European refugees, Middle Eastern turmoil). The international market looks good (and necessary) for Tesla cars and, especially now, for Tesla Energy. Increase protectionism and potential trade wars are not helpful to increasing revenue from international sales.
I'm not gloomy about Tesla long-term, I am gloomy about TSLA short-term. Tesla needs Capital to continue to expand quickly and it would be helpful if there were accommodative tax, trade and energy policy to encourage that high growth rate. From public statements and past actions, this will no longer be the case and I believe will effect Tesla's ability to continue to grow/expand at the rate we would like. Long-term, this may be healthy -short-term, it could be toxic for TSLA stock.
1. De-emphasis on renewable energy at the national level and some inherent bias against Tesla (or at minimum, no encouragement, accommodation or support). Remember, Tesla is still the last shining city on a hill from Obama's clean energy loan guarantee program (Started under Bush....Solyndra....you know the story). Anything Obama = Bad....regardless of "Great Again", "American Exceptionalism" or support for US manufacturing, politicians with an (R) behind their name would like nothing better than to urinate on Tesla from a high place.
2. The Capital Markets. Wish we could have gotten another Capital raise in. Tesla needs Capital to grow and the debt markets may be facing an interest rate increase in December, or the spike in Treasuries/Bond Yields may make debt funding less attractive. As for an equity raise, the election/SCTY acquisition has already dropped the stock price materially from the last 215 price. With the S&P P/E hovering around 25 in an earnings recession and stock buybacks becoming harder to fund with "free" money, my hopes of a bull market similar to 2013 are minuscule. For those investing now on the hope of a Trumpian fiscal stimulus, we are realistically 9-12 months out from passing any stimulus, which would then realistically take 12-18 months to impact the economy. If Icahn, et al believe that the gifted economic theorist that is Donald Trump has a solution for low global growth that is not currently being implemented by every central banker and economist worldwide, then they should feel free to leave a party and bet $1Billion on a continuation of an exhausted bull market. For my money, protectionism and saber rattling are not solutions to a global growth malaise.
3. International Markets. There is a current upswing in nationalism and protectionist policies (Brexit, Trump, European refugees, Middle Eastern turmoil). The international market looks good (and necessary) for Tesla cars and, especially now, for Tesla Energy. Increase protectionism and potential trade wars are not helpful to increasing revenue from international sales.
I'm not gloomy about Tesla long-term, I am gloomy about TSLA short-term. Tesla needs Capital to continue to expand quickly and it would be helpful if there were accommodative tax, trade and energy policy to encourage that high growth rate. From public statements and past actions, this will no longer be the case and I believe will effect Tesla's ability to continue to grow/expand at the rate we would like. Long-term, this may be healthy -short-term, it could be toxic for TSLA stock.
SunCatcher
Member
Yes, I read your post. My response was not just for you. Now that your reply fills in the blanks with defining what a level playing field really is, I can see that we are in agreement. And we wouldn't have to even talk about the VA and its funding, were it not for these massive wars over oil bearing regions that we have been involved in for far too long. That is a subsidy paid for with treasure and lives.
Elon Musk has stated the best solution for a level playing field; CARBON TAX. The use of oil pours pollution into out air, and pays no price for dealing with the effects of it. And this isn't really any different than the polluters of the past, who had to stop polluting the land and water, is it? Anyway, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, so thanks for your ears.
Peace.
Volume used to be 4-5M, it slowed down a lot in the election runup and post merger announcement. So today is not too unexpected, at least for me. I think in a week or so it will settle down to the 5M area.
Both are builders. Both like grand projects. Even read somewhere Trump wants us to go to Mars. Make sense for them to work together to make America great again.
Driver Dave
Member
Enough about Trump.
There is no way Trump can reach into the factory and somehow make the cars coming out of Tesla not amazing.
Regardless of who is president, there is nothing stopping Tesla from growing. Electric cars are the future. Tesla is in the lead. The product is amazing. The executive branch will not be able to change that.
Now can someone tell me why the stock is having a big dip today? And please don't say "trump"
There is no way Trump can reach into the factory and somehow make the cars coming out of Tesla not amazing.
Regardless of who is president, there is nothing stopping Tesla from growing. Electric cars are the future. Tesla is in the lead. The product is amazing. The executive branch will not be able to change that.
Now can someone tell me why the stock is having a big dip today? And please don't say "trump"
Because more shares have been sold than bought. It's pretty straightforward. I am getting tired of reading all the nonsense reasoning that goes on here (i.e. "the shorts mounted a coordinated attack"...)
If Trump utterly ignores climate change concerns it will be his Vietnam. Long TSLA and Tesla and bracing for short term pain.
To put this (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1823816/) more simply: dramatic, dislocative change is afoot, led in the US by individuals and institutions whose philosophy is polar opposite than Elon's vision for Tesla's reason for being. I can't think of a single example of when dramatic change has been gentle or non-disruptive. With the current trends in the US reversing philosophically, economically and potentially legislatively and judicially, it will be difficult for TSLA stock to thrive short-term.
Take a look at the daily trading chart for the NASDAQ. TSLA is following it very closely, only at exaggerated numbers, which is common. The tech sector took a big hit today. Curt Renz put out a very informative post about how fund managers work. Reread the previous posts, please.
"His trade policies could add $5,000 or more to the price of a small car from Mexico,”
What President Trump Means for American Automakers
What President Trump Means for American Automakers
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
You do realise that an equal number of shares have been sold as have been bought, right?
It's very simple: the market is pricing in Trump becoming president and the collective estimate of this is that Tesla as a company is worth less, reflecting an expectation by the market that Tesla will be less profitable in the future than what the market expected before the election.
This could be because of specific things Trump says he believes and intends to act upon: climate change scepticism may adversely effects incentives for cars and solar and negatively effect legislation nation wide with regard to Tesla's businesses, Trump ideas on foreign/global trade may harm Tesla's global business.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The United States isn't a normal democracy.
It is a Federal Democratic Republic.
The winner of the Presidency isn't determined by who gets the most votes but who gets the most electoral votes.
Both campaigns knew the rules of the elections before the campaign began.
And they campaigned to get the most electoral votes not the most popular votes.
jgillispie
Member
MartinAustin
Active Member
Tesla is the ideal manufacturer. Constantly hiring. Exporting around the world, and helping with the U.S. trade deficit. It's a manufacturing company, and has three massive factories - NUMMA which was a pretty big factory in its own right, the Nevada battery factory which will be the world's largest factory by some measures, and the huge Solar City panel factory.
Once the cars are getting their batteries from Nevada, the "domestic parts percentage" will rise so high it'll be the most American car you can buy. Plus they are leading the world in a whole bunch of ways and heartily eating into sales of the German elite brands.
Doesn't matter if you make buckets, cars, coat hangars or bricks, if you are manufacturing things in America, using American workers, that is what Trump wants.
Tesla is exactly the kind of company Trump should not be messing with. He should be rallying behind it and hailing the example they're setting.
Very strong rebound for TSLA happening. On any other day, climbing from $180 to $188 would be remarkable
Once the cars are getting their batteries from Nevada, the "domestic parts percentage" will rise so high it'll be the most American car you can buy. Plus they are leading the world in a whole bunch of ways and heartily eating into sales of the German elite brands.
Doesn't matter if you make buckets, cars, coat hangars or bricks, if you are manufacturing things in America, using American workers, that is what Trump wants.
Tesla is exactly the kind of company Trump should not be messing with. He should be rallying behind it and hailing the example they're setting.
Very strong rebound for TSLA happening. On any other day, climbing from $180 to $188 would be remarkable
Not to belittle Vietnam, an unnecessary war with horrible casualties, but I think that should me more like:
If Trumps utterly ignores climate change concerns it will be our Armageddon.
Recent data accumulation is discouraging...
I agree with you. But I have bolded a sentence to point out, it isn't just the cost of health care, petroleum can actually kill the people you love. I bought my Model S in early 2013 because my wife was dying of leukemia at the time that was likely contracted from her childhood near a petroleum facility. I felt sick to my stomach to put gas in my car. For me, I am long on TSLA because I have personal commitment to support the end of ICE.
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