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Should I display range, or percent?

Which do you use?

  • Distance (miles, kilometers)

    Votes: 32 29.4%
  • Energy (percentage)

    Votes: 68 62.4%
  • Either, depending on circumstances

    Votes: 9 8.3%

  • Total voters
    109

holmgang

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,294
1,301
eu
That's a valid point because that how battery meters work... or gas gauges work... Does your phone tell you how many hours of screen time it has left to the battery? NO....


well, yes

many phones do, and same goes for laptops

in the same way that many cars now will give you a "distance til empty" readout. theres nothing wrong with the principle - its just simple math - and its up to each person to decide which they prefer to see


***

but anyway im in camp Percentage. i know what my conversion rate is (current 3-4km per percentage, depending on aggressiveness of driving), and also know where to access the computer's rate is and off what basis
 

holmgang

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,294
1,301
eu
I wish there was an option to remove the battery gauge all together. I just want a pop-up warning when the car believes (based on actual usage rather than rated range) it has insufficient charge to get home with a 20% buffer.

I can drive around town all day and never drop below 50% so in either configuration, most of the time, the battery gauge serves no purpose other than to cause anxiety.

A popup at distance-to-home + 20% will give more than enough warning to avoid getting stuck. Once it pops up I know that I either need to head home soon, or start planning for where I will charge.

i wish not for this type of obscuring of data, like ever
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,778
7,600
Visalia, CA
...Does your phone tell you how many hours of screen time it has left to the battery? NO. It tells you the percentage of energy left in your battery. If your phone only last 3 hours after 2 years of use, it will still show 100% when you fully charge it. I don't know why people are suddenly surprised or don't feel the percentage meter is 'good enough'. It's been a few decades of this in portable electronic devices...

Very valid points for cell phones and my old gasoline cars that only show fractions on the gauge.

Those are fine because I could find a gasoline station in less than a mile and I could walk there and back with my gasoline can.

Same with my cell phone: I could plug in at work at home at school any time so precision is not a big deal.

That said, I did run out of gasoline for my older cars a few times in town because I had no idea how many more it could still go by looking at the gasoline gauge in fractions (1/4, 1/2, 3/4).

I have never run out of battery since 2012 or the past 8 years for driving to Sacramento, San Francisco, San Diego, Las Vegas (500 mile radius) because I can see the rated miles easily.
 
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dmurphy

Woof.
Dec 7, 2018
3,541
4,729
New Jersey - Morris County
I use miles (not percent) because I have been displaying "miles to empty" in my cars for over a decade, so thats what I am used to. My cars previous to tesla all had both an analog (or digital) fuel gauge, but also a setting somewhere where i could display "miles to empty" and I always used that more than the analog gauge.

I just dont pay a lot of attention to the actual number next to the battery gauge, other than to use it as an approximation, which is all I need

Quoted because I could've written every word above. Sometimes I think we're clones.

Driving via "Miles to Empty" has been my habit for at least 20 years now - it's served me well, so I see no reason to slip backwards to a fuel float approximator.
 

toolman335

Member
Oct 3, 2019
846
597
Rochester
That's a valid point because that how battery meters work... or gas gauges work... Does your phone tell you how many hours of screen time it has left to the battery? NO. It tells you the percentage of energy left in your battery. If your phone only last 3 hours after 2 years of use, it will still show 100% when you fully charge it. I don't know why people are suddenly surprised or don't feel the percentage meter is 'good enough'. It's been a few decades of this in portable electronic devices.

Telsa will never put the Kwh for the battery meter (even though it's probably the best of both worlds) because they already hide the battery size in the newer cars. People have estimated that the total usable energy is around 73KWh out of a 75KWh battery but Telsa has never stated that, so they are not going to put 73KWh as the full charge in the battery meter.

There's a big difference between your phone running dead and your car.
Again, if you have NAV on then you're fine.
If you're on a trip without NAV then you have to either crunch numbers in your head....or switch to miles.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,668
1,070
Syracuse, NY
There's a big difference between your phone running dead and your car.
Again, if you have NAV on then you're fine.
If you're on a trip without NAV then you have to either crunch numbers in your head....or switch to miles.

You should always drive with the nav pointing at your destination or supercharger when going long distances.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,832
9,799
Riverside Co. CA
... eh. If I know where I'm going, I'm fine without it.

This has to be the first time I can remember doing something different than you, lol.

I navigate everywhere.... but I am a directionally challenged person. I even activate my nav when going to work and going home from work (for traffic, not because I am lost going there, lol).

The only time I dont use Nav, is when I am driving "in town" to go to the grocery store, or big box hardware store, or something like that. Otherwise, if any sort of freeway is involved at all, I turn on nav, and its SO easy in a tesla to navigate somewhere. I usually just use voice command and say "navigate to X on Y" and it pulls it up. Work and home I use the buttons.

Full disclosure.. I was always "directionally challenged" and I married my high school sweetheart (34 years ago). She is the daughter of a a trucker, and is the opposite of directionally challenged. So, my wife, who was my girlfriend back then, was my navigation system before my cars had nav ("turn left here.... your gonna miss it!" lol....)
 

dmurphy

Woof.
Dec 7, 2018
3,541
4,729
New Jersey - Morris County
This has to be the first time I can remember doing something different than you, lol.

I navigate everywhere.... but I am a directionally challenged person. I even activate my nav when going to work and going home from work (for traffic, not because I am lost going there, lol).

The only time I dont use Nav, is when I am driving "in town" to go to the grocery store, or big box hardware store, or something like that. Otherwise, if any sort of freeway is involved at all, I turn on nav, and its SO easy in a tesla to navigate somewhere. I usually just use voice command and say "navigate to X on Y" and it pulls it up. Work and home I use the buttons.

Full disclosure.. I was always "directionally challenged" and I married my high school sweetheart (34 years ago). She is the daughter of a a trucker, and is the opposite of directionally challenged. So, my wife, who was my girlfriend back then, was my navigation system before my cars had nav ("turn left here.... your gonna miss it!" lol....)

Truth be told, I do tend to use the nav on longer drives to check traffic - but usually then shut it off. I also keep bitchin’ Betty muted. If I’m just following her rote directions, I’m not paying attention to where I am. And that’s a feeling I dislike.

Growing up, my dad also drove a truck. Well, still does. All local, not over-the-road but still - instills a pretty good sense of direction. Not always the /route/ I want but at least situational awareness. (Side story; I learned long ago that his routes were usually longer and a PITA than a direct route. Then it dawned on me that his brain automatically routes for trucks - weight limits, limited access roads, tight turns, etc! It all made sense!)

So even here - we likely agree more than not .... but there are times I want to go “free” and just hop in the car and go.

(And yeah, I’ve gotten lost going to work. I’ve gone to the WRONG place - an hour away - several weeks after changing jobs!)
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,832
9,799
Riverside Co. CA
Truth be told, I do tend to use the nav on longer drives to check traffic - but usually then shut it off. I also keep bitchin’ Betty muted. If I’m just following her rote directions, I’m not paying attention to where I am. And that’s a feeling I dislike.

Growing up, my dad also drove a truck. Well, still does. All local, not over-the-road but still - instills a pretty good sense of direction. Not always the /route/ I want but at least situational awareness. (Side story; I learned long ago that his routes were usually longer and a PITA than a direct route. Then it dawned on me that his brain automatically routes for trucks - weight limits, limited access roads, tight turns, etc! It all made sense!)

So even here - we likely agree more than not .... but there are times I want to go “free” and just hop in the car and go.

(And yeah, I’ve gotten lost going to work. I’ve gone to the WRONG place - an hour away - several weeks after changing jobs!)

Totally off topic now but yeah my wifes father (who unfortunately passed away 10 years ago) and I were actually really close. He drove "western US" based out of southern cali, and he could back an 18 wheeler into a space I couldnt back my honda accord into back then, lmao. He also routed just like you mention your dad did. Not many side streets, etc. trucker brain, lol :)

(I actually keep the voice on the nav off unless I am actually going someplace I dont know)
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,540
12,258
California
so you find percent "more accurate"?
I do, yes. It’s a relative representation that is easier for me to process and understand at a glance.

I’ve always found miles to empty close to useless on ICE cars as well, because the miles displayed generally have a fast and loose relationship with reality at best. On the other hand, “quarter tank, need to fill up soon” is easy and absolute. Like I said above, nav takes care of the rest.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,540
12,258
California
How many quarter tanks is it from, say, Walla Walla WA to Portland OR?

Are the highway markers in tank-tenths, or whole tanks?
Who cares? Enter destination in nav. Charge when it tells you to. 110,000 miles of EV driving all over the western US following this basic principle hasn’t let me down yet, or even put me in a slightly sketchy situation.

As I said, real miles vs “miles to empty” have a practically useless relationship to each other in most cases anyway. Are highway mile markers spaced at 140% of EPA rated miles, or 60%?
 
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JBT66

Member
Oct 26, 2018
625
363
Arizona
I use miles. It’s more useful to me to know I have about 30 miles of range than 10% battery capacity.
% or a fuel gauge seems archaic to me.
If I know something is 20 miles away there is a good chance I’ll make it but will need to a charge to return. I’d have to do all sorts of figuring to know I’d make it if I only knew the percentage.
 
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holmgang

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,294
1,301
eu
Those are fine because I could find a gasoline station in less than a mile and I could walk there and back with my gasoline can.
...
That said, I did run out of gasoline for my older cars a few times in town because I had no idea how many more it could still go by looking at the gasoline gauge in fractions (1/4, 1/2, 3/4).
I am genuinely curious what leads to a scenario of running out of gas , having heard of it but never interacting with someone to whom it has happened.

Did you just try to straight-shot it to a long destination? Or wantonly drive around to a drip of its life, knowing there is an easy bail-out?

Im truly curious, with no malicious intent
 

WarpedOne

Supreme Premier
Aug 17, 2006
4,356
6,490
Slovenia, Europe
Agree.
In this modern time, we should not need to ration our info to "either-or". We should have both at the same time!

One touch and voila ... upper left is showing % if set to Energy.
You can even choose how exactly that range in mid right is calculated.

tesla-range-estimator.jpg



>> If I know something is 20 miles away there is a good chance I

There are many more places that I do not know their distance so that range number tells me nothing.
Use navigation, enter address and see If I will make it with or without charging.
What I really hate is seeing range number going down by seconds ... even Energy display is too granular and drops much too fast.

I'd wish for say 5 level charge display:
- Full (soc > 90)
- High (90-80)
- OK (80-30)
- Low (30-10)
- Empty (soc < 10%)

You charge to High when you get to Low, while in OK you don't think about charging.
 
Last edited:

toolman335

Member
Oct 3, 2019
846
597
Rochester
Totally agree that we should be able to one-touch change it or do it via voice command.

With NAV on it's just personal preference. With it off both the percent and miles are a wild guess on range. There's no difference. They'll drop quicker than you expect if the conditions are suspect.
 

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