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Should track mode 100% regen be stronger than normal driving?

Sam1

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Sep 11, 2019
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Plus, please do not run track mode on the street.

That's no fun then. if you start power sliding and have slip start enabled, it'll only do a little bit before nerfing the power,and if you're at an angle going 35, that can cause major problems. With track mode, at least you can still change the angle with the throttle if it tightens up.

I would prefer a quick enable/disable switch on the steering wheel for track mode.
 

tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
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That's the thing though- the bias only really does anything while you are under significant power. It has the majority effect as you are going full throttle as you come out of the corner, not mid-corner. Plus, please do not run track mode on the street.


Yeah, you should be. Go watch the videos of people driving a M3P in Dyno mode with no traction control. It's basically impossible. Tesla clamped that down real quick. The closest you can get now is the drift preset- that will really show you how fast the car can get away from you if it is allowed to spin up a tire. It's instantaneous loss of grip and tire smoke. But that also shows you that track mode will allow you to turn off all nannies.
I should more clearly separate traction control from stability control in my writings and mind. Yes for sure no traction control would be a hot mess in this car, it wouldn't make sense at all, and I've zero interest in disabling traction control on a powerful EV. It's really stability control that is more concerning. I want room to play, but at the same time I think this car is more likely to bite me than the front-heavy ICE 4 doors I was used to, where you'd have to really try or do something brain-dead to spin.

Trail braking on the street? Yeah, I hope you're never comfortable with that.
Depends how well I know the car and the road/ramp. In that ICE car I learned to do it on the track. Maybe the real lesson here is I should admit to myself that I have an itch to do track days again. For me it wouldn't make any sense to regularly track my M3P, my long-term plan is to build up a fun, old, slow ICE sports car for track day duty, but maybe a one-off track day in the M3P where I take it easy on the drivetrain + brakes and focus on exploring its limits would be worthwhile. Wasn't something I was considering but you have a point.
 
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tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
2,451
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USA
Plus, please do not run track mode on the street.
That's no fun then. if you start power sliding and have slip start enabled, it'll only do a little bit before nerfing the power,and if you're at an angle going 35, that can cause major problems. With track mode, at least you can still change the angle with the throttle if it tightens up.

@Sam1 articulated my thoughts on this better than I could. I'll just add this applies triply so for snow driving. Not that I've driven the Model 3 in the snow yet, but from everything I've read I would be super unhappy in the snow without Track Mode v2.

Edit: My last AWD car was a beast in the snow (with proper winter tires of course). 3 limited slip diffs including fully lockable center. I can't help but use it as my snow driving benchmark. I don't think an open diffs, rear-biased Model 3 will match that level of snow traction, but I'm hoping that with Track Mode v2 handling balance on or near 50/50, and stability control turned way down, it will get in the same ballpark.

I would prefer a quick enable/disable switch on the steering wheel for track mode.
That would be awesome! Track mode on/off + recirc on/off and my steering wheel controls would be complete. :cool:
 
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I would prefer a quick enable/disable switch on the steering wheel for track mode.

@Sam1That would be awesome! Track mode on/off + recirc on/off and my steering wheel controls would be complete. :cool:

There's always those S3XY buttons that I've seen popping up recently (no pun intended :)). Cool idea, and I think track mode enable/disable is an option.

 
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tm1v2

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Oct 18, 2021
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There's always those S3XY buttons that I've seen popping up recently (no pun intended :)). Cool idea, and I think track mode enable/disable is an option.

That button system is a neat use of the debug interface, but the car still doesn't allow for enabling track mode on the fly, still have to go into Park.
 
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Sam1

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Sep 11, 2019
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Do you run scanmytesla through the OBD port under the dash? Or the debug / diag cable plus adapter?

I'm missing my P3D with track mode! Hopefully they release track mode for the new Plaid.
The only place it will work is if you hook it up to an intercept cable in the back of the console. I don't think the port under the dash provides any relevant information.
 
Do you run scanmytesla through the OBD port under the dash? Or the debug / diag cable plus adapter?
There is no under dash OBDII port in a Model 3/Y. Even in the S/X, it's just a power port. As a vehicle which cannot create emissions, Tesla received an exemption to being required to provide them. They also are a place that people could use to maintain their Teslas easily, and Tesla can't have that ;)

and it also takes up the OBD port that most of us use to run scanmytesla.
OBDII splitters are a thing and are under $10.
 

Sam1

Active Member
Sep 11, 2019
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Are you arguing that stability control is dangerous in some situations?

Stability control and traction control are two separate things. slip start is traction control. stability control is not related to slip start, and even in track mode the car still limits the angle you can drift in, I forget what the degree was that one of the videos I watched said it was at, maybe 35 degrees or so (but don't quote me on that). And yes, traction control kicking in when it's unexpected and unwanted, is dangerous.
 
The previous dude said it has to be in park to enable, so that makes it a no deal for me. Also, not sure how people could fit two OBD devices in the console and leave the lid on. You have to jam the cable and scanner up under a bracket just to get the cover back on with one in it.
I just leave mine laying on the carpet. Are you using an OBDLink? You don't have to periodically unplug/replug?
 
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Sam1

Active Member
Sep 11, 2019
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I just leave mine laying on the carpet. Are you using an OBDLink? You don't have to periodically unplug/replug?

Using an obdlink, never have to unplug it. I used to, but then figured out what was causing the issue. If you open scanmytesla, when you're done with it, exit the app completely by viewing it and sliding it up. If you leave scanmytesla running in the background and leave proximity of the reader, it causes an issue with the connection sometimes and requires the unplug/replug.

Since doing this, I haven't had to unplug it any, in probably 6 months.
 

tm1v2

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Oct 18, 2021
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Are you arguing that stability control is dangerous in some situations?
This could be a big can of worms. As a generalized statement about all the stability control systems out there in every car, across every possible driving situation...I'm sure it can be dangerous. Of course that doesn't mean it's usually dangerous or a net loss in safety, e.g. airbags can be dangerous in some situations but overall they're still a big win for crash safety.

I have zero experience driving a car hard with stability control. Most of my ICE cars didn't have it at all. The last one did but I left it disabled always, it wasn't needed at all, the car was incredibly stable and predictable in all conditions, from racetrack to snow storms. My Model S has it too and it's always enabled, but it's a Model S, I don't drive it like that, it's just not that kind of car.

On one hand, stability control can do something a driver can't - brake individual wheels. That's potentially hugely useful. However, stability control literally has a mind (controller logic) of its own. What if it intervenes heavily in a way I'm not expecting? What if I'm trying to compensate for losing grip or sliding at the same time as stability control? What if I want to slide (e.g. in the snow) and stability control is getting in my way? My impression of road car stability control systems is they're typically programmed for drivers who have no idea how to control their car at the limit of grip or in a slide. Of course that blanket statement isn't universally true. From car reviews it sounds like many sports cars come with systems that are designed for spirited or even racetrack driving, or with specific modes for that, where they'll still try to save a semi-experienced driver's butt without causing issues from intervening too early.

Maybe none of this is an issue in the Model 3, especially with Track Mode. This car is very new to me and I'm just beginning to explore its limits. So far I haven't felt stability control do anything scary, whatever interventions it's done have been mild enough to not upset the car. I don't see myself ever turning stability control all the way down on the street, except in the snow, where ideally I want zero intervention aside from traction control brake actuation to compensate for the open diffs.

As I said, all my past sporty, nimble, tossable cars have been front-heavy and either FWD or traditional fulltime AWD without such a heavy rear-wheel power bias as the Model 3. I've certainly driven balanced or rear-heavy RWD sports cars, even mid-engine and rear-engine ones, on the street and even the track, but not with enough seat time to actually reach their limits. (Think swapping cars with friends just for fun.) The Model 3 hopefully doesn't have the snap-oversteer tendencies I've read about for some sports cars, but I know its handling and power application is still outside my comfort zone, and it's probably easier to spin by mistake than my front-heavy cars were. It probably sounds like I'm too gung-ho about pushing my M3P's limits on the street, but I have some experience in this and you better believe I'm never doing it where I could possibly crash into anyone else, nor anywhere without some room to recover from some unexpected slippage.

I'm also trying to work my way up to the limits somewhat gradually. It helps that the stock 235 Pirellis aren't excessively grippy for 4000 lbs of EV. (Grippy enough for the street, absolutely, just not ridiculous grip like a lighter sporty ICE car on similar width or wider 200 TW street/track tires.) I'll be switching to Potenza Sport in 245/45R18 soon, which might add a little more grip, but I'm sure the limits will still be semi-approachable, it's a lot of weight for even 245s. (But efficiency/range is important to me, I'm going to run through the 245s on 18x8.5 first and see how I feel about the grip and efficiency before I possibly consider wider wheels+tires.)
 
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Not to revive a dead thread, but I found this while looking for something else, and noticed that he numbers for regen listed here do not seem to align with what I have in a telemetry file for a track session from August 2021. Im my telemetry file, I have max power level at about 413 kW (@ 90% SoC) and minimum at -189 kW (@ 79% and lower SoC). So based on this, it would seem regen reached almost 190 kW during that track session. I also noticed that in almost cases, when regen was that high, vehicle speed was generally >100 MPH.

So it seems that at sufficiently high speeds, Track Mode can regenerate quite a bit.
 

Sam1

Active Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,957
2,069
NV
Not to revive a dead thread, but I found this while looking for something else, and noticed that he numbers for regen listed here do not seem to align with what I have in a telemetry file for a track session from August 2021. Im my telemetry file, I have max power level at about 413 kW (@ 90% SoC) and minimum at -189 kW (@ 79% and lower SoC). So based on this, it would seem regen reached almost 190 kW during that track session. I also noticed that in almost cases, when regen was that high, vehicle speed was generally >100 MPH.

So it seems that at sufficiently high speeds, Track Mode can regenerate quite a bit.
If you're talking about the numbers that I recorded, those were done at street speeds, you were probably going double the speed that I was
 
...and now that this thread is being resurrected, here is my question as a range miser, not race car driver:

Would I make up the added amount of battery regeneration in track mode for the extra battery drain the track mode is said to pull out?
If the net result is more range, due to higher current regeneration, why would I not stay in track mode all the time?
 

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