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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think there were a lot of reasons for the failure of Fisker and looks would be way down on the list.
I intended no insult to the OP. It's just a terrible idea.
I'm not going to call it ugly, nor am I going to say its a bad design.
It is a fine design if you are not concerned with efficiency, practicality or cost.
If you built a $40000 car with that design, someone else could easily build a better car for the same money that has much more range, passenger comfort and cargo space.
I don't know why people are so enamored with swoopy lines that have no substance underneath. Any 7 year old can draw a good looking car.
Okay, points taken, thanks for the input. It was just an idea, apparently not a great one, but hey I have made MUCH bigger mistakes in my life! Anyway, there is one thing that should be clarified, my post says "redesign the front end" and add storage space. This point seems to have been missed by many posters, as the biggest negative arguments are centered around the front end being ugly, the front end being too long and/or there is not enough space in the Karma. Anyway, this is all moot now that Elon said they will use/steal/borrow the Audi Q4 and BMW 3 series design.
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That's highly incorrect. They(the company Fisker) failed because of financial inconsistency. They have/had a product (the Karma) good enough for sale that demand was created. Regardless of your take on style, there was a market that forked over cash to buy the car.
I think it's a very beautiful car....bleeding edge style of the car put people in the 'love it, hate it camps'. In time though, it's my opinion that the Karma will stand the test of time from a styling persective (think 'Bangled' BMWs). That style was hated up front, but now has become the basis of current generation 7-series, 5 series, and last generation of 3 series. Last I checked, BMW is still selling cars.
That aside, the Karma's styling is no where near what the Pontiac Aztek was, Saturn xxxx's, Porsche 914, etc. It's not the styling that brought down the car company.
The usability of the car isn't there, the performance does not match the visceral look of the car, the user experience is HORRIBLE (try using the control stack while driving), and the finish status does not it the price point of the car (bring the car up to the golf club and you're sure to be embarrassed by the fit and finished, the sound of the gasoline engine, the lack of performance of the VERY expensive solar panel roof, etc.....and the fact that you'd be asking the valet to take the golf clubs out of the passenger or back seat instead of the trunk).
Even with that, the company (again, Fisker) was brought down by mismanagement of $$$$ not by the lack of demand for the Karma. From what I understand, there's a Chinese company wanting to buy Fisker wants to keep the Karma car in production but change the end product to be an traditional ICE vehicle with a performance V8 powering the car. If they do what Tata has done for Jaguar (I would potentially give up my P85+ order for an F-type), or what Hyundai and Kia have done, they'll have a hit in Europe and possibly N. America.
Volker.Berlin
Member
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
I saw in a show room the new Lexus IS hybrid. I liked it very much. A lot of technical options (ACC also for the rear side!). What do you guys think if Gen III looked like the new Lexus IS hybrid?
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-lexus-is300h-hybrid-photos-and-info-news
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-lexus-is300h-hybrid-photos-and-info-news
ipdamages
Roadster Sport 835
Not at all. They collapsed for several other reasons, and got awards and lots of investment $$ for their designs. The real reasons are well summarized by Luder94:
I additionally think, as I have posted in the Fisker Failure thread, that the lack of green creds was a huge problem. Given that half of Tesla's Model S sales are in California, the failure to qualify for HOV stickers in California rendered the Karma a style-over-substance car with fatal compromises. I know that, for me, that was a huge reason that I got a deposit refund and immediately bought my Roadster - when I did my Karma test drive and found out it wouldn't qualify for the HOV lanes, and also realizing that the car was ginormous, like the Model S.
I think that the company failed because of mismanagement, but the Karma failed because of the compromises and failure to deliver on other criteria beyond style. As to how the Atlantic would have done, I don't know. From the moment I saw it I said "wow." But the compromises in the Karma would likely have afflicted the Atlantic too, so it too would have not had other specs to match the looks.
All that said, I acknowledge that MANY people prefer the Model S's design to the curvy Karma. I just prefer curvy. I think it would have been interesting if there were Model Ss available in two body styles: existing and Karma. If the Karma had all the non-design outstanding features of the Model S, I suspect that a lot of buyers would have chosen the curvy design. The fact that Fisker sold more than 1,500 Karmas in spite of its other glaring problems suggests that they would have been a serious contenter if they had matched Tesla on the other specs.
Franz has said that the body design of the Model S was a compromise. In the case of the Karma, Henrik chose to compromise on everything else.
Of course, my hypothetical is absurd. Simply by employing the Karma's curves, many of the Model S's features (e.g., rear seat space and storage) would be impossible. And the skateboard would mean raising the car 5+ inches. And the huge snout would be unnecessary without the ICE. But if it were possible, I think some would be surprised at how the Karma and Fisker would have done.
As to the Gen 3 design, for the reasons many have stated, there is no way that Tesla is going to go there (use anything Karma-esque). But I would appreciate it if future cars like Gen 3 had a bit more curve to them. And swapped out that nose cone. That said, I would buy today a Model S shrunk down in size by 20%, at 80% of the price, assuming roughly similar performance and 20% less range. Sedan or coupe.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
Completely agree, the Fisker Karma is far too exotic too be any kind of design inspiration for Gen III. But, Fisker was working towards a slightly (very slightly) toned down prototype of something new called the Fisker Surf. A little more down-to-earth design, but, still waaaay to curvy for the Tesla design aesthetic...
SuperCoug
Model S Res #7734
I'm also not that fond of the Fisker design but the good news for people who love it is that you can probably get one pretty cheap in about 6 months! :biggrin:
If Fisker fails completely then the car that were exceptionally well cared for might be collectors items that could appreciate but I've got to figure many owners will simply want to unload their Fisker if they can't get it serviced anywhere.
If Fisker fails completely then the car that were exceptionally well cared for might be collectors items that could appreciate but I've got to figure many owners will simply want to unload their Fisker if they can't get it serviced anywhere.
But what about all those terrific local dealers, especially in North Carolina?
To me the Fisker is what the Joker would drive, while the S is the Batmobile.
caddieo
Member
No way should Tesla adopt the Fisker design. There is no fluid continuity of style between the two. Tesla should develop and continuously evolve its brand style so that years from now, you can see the car from a distance and know it's a Tesla without having to see the name. Just like Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Corvette or Mustang. You see one from a distance and you know what it is. There's a "family" continuity of style. I don't see MB, BMW or Audi employing DeLorean or even Ferrari elements.
I understand Tesla needs to develop its own signature look, and the controversial space shuttle like appearance of the front end is really the only differentiating point as far as styling goes. When you see that coming from a distance, you already know it's a Tesla. Beyond the nose cone, the MS is almost an exact replica of a Porche's Panamera or Jaguar's XF so they already use other manufactures as inspiration. Also, just last week Elon said gen III will be similar to Audi or BMW, so he clearly has no problem taking cues from others in the industry. Why not Fisker too?
BTW, as a Gen III buyer, the SURF above gets a thumbs up, a smaller version similar to Hyundai's Veloster would be a nice looking car.
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