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Signature Angst

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At what point would you declare "knowing"? Technically speaking we "still have something coming for Signature Model S", according to an Elon quote that was never followed with any resolution. It's quite literally a "check's in the mail" kind of thing w/r/t the Elon quote. It's just as open-ended as "we'll do something for Roadster". Actually it's more open-ended because the Roadster quote from Teslive includes "next year".

Technically I knew before I finalized. I got exactly what was promised to me when I finalized. Sig red paint and my car before the production cars (true for over 95% of Sig customers I think. I know some were significantly delayed). They do have many open ended comments like that. Guess we will have to wait until the end of next year to find out about the Roadster.

If Tesla can't promise every single Sig is delivered before the production cars then they should probably change the wording to something that indicates there may be some overlap in delivery.
 
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The Signature Red is an absolutely gorgeous color. I saw one in the sun for the first time last Sunday (Hello #799 if you're out there! Shoot me a PM to say Hello) and was blown away by the color. Until seeing it in the sun I didn't think much of it, but wow... that's at least one exclusive aspect of being a Signature buyer.
 
The Signature Red is an absolutely gorgeous color. I saw one in the sun for the first time last Sunday (Hello #799 if you're out there! Shoot me a PM to say Hello) and was blown away by the color. Until seeing it in the sun I didn't think much of it, but wow... that's at least one exclusive aspect of being a Signature buyer.

I totally agree! My wife and I just love our Signature Red. But I wonder just how many Signature owners actually picked Signature Red and the Signature white interior, it would be interesting to know. I picked the Sig Red and White, but it seems anecdotal evidence would indicate that a fair number of Sig owners picked other colors, which would make owning a Signature car even less of a premium.
 
I totally agree! My wife and I just love our Signature Red. But I wonder just how many Signature owners actually picked Signature Red and the Signature white interior, it would be interesting to know. I picked the Sig Red and White, but it seems anecdotal evidence would indicate that a fair number of Sig owners picked other colors, which would make owning a Signature car even less of a premium.

I've got a signature model s reservation for Australia, looking forward to getting the signature red and the white interior.

Considering they will be rare in aus as it is, it should keep the resale value high :) not that I plan to sell it
 
I got the Sig for the red, which I originally saw on the prototype. I wanted it and there was no getting around it. When I was at the service center yesterday to pick up my baby, she was parked in a sea of silver and black/almost black cars. She looked even more beautiful than the day I first laid eyes on her. It was worth the money (and I got mine after general production cars were delivered). No regrets.

BTW, how do you guys come up with a 5 grand Sig tax? My math says it's $3,650 less the price of a gym bag.
 
I'd like to say something here.

If one were to look across the things I have written here and on Seeking Alpha it would be easy to assume at a first glance that I was some kind of unhinged Tesla fan boy without a balanced word to say.

It has been a bit difficult to avoid giving that impression when most of the conversation has revolved around dismantling endless erroneous attacks on the Tesla business.

Examples:

No, Tesla is not going to go bust nor will it struggle for working capital, ever again
No, Tesla is not making dirty cars that are more polluting that gasoline
No, Tesla will not be wiped out by the very industry it is disrupting
No, Hydrogen Fuel Cells and NG are not valid environmental alternatives
No, Exponential increases in atmospheric CO2 are neither acceptable nor a hoax
No, Musk is not facing the SEC on charges of insider trading
No, GM's battery cost data does not prevent Tesla making a $35K Gen III
No, Tesla will not fail to make 25% gross margins
No, Tesla is not constrained to a market niche be that luxury or any other geodemographic
No, Tesla does not lack automotive experience considering it can hire the best in any field
No, Tesla is not limited to becoming the size of any other existing automotive point of reference
No, Tesla is not dependent upon subsidies, tax breaks and emissions credits (although it substantially broadens first-mover advantage to use and abuse these to the max until they are cancelled in the face of follow-on competition).
No, There is nothing to stop Tesla growing exponentially on internally generated revenues (that is what cash up front direct sales from a reservation list is all about).
No, There is nothing to stop Tesla selling and making 200,000 cars at huge profits in 2017 and 400~500,000 cars in 2018. More likely than not it will.
No, BMW i3 will not hinder Tesla one jot (nor will the i8), with a 7 year development cycle, until further notice BMW is out of the race to become a meaningful part of the future of automotive.

All of the above is true to the best of my knowledge and belief, and the reason I believe all that is because I made a disruptive business that works like this one and I recognize literally everything in and around it. Sadly I know something that Tesla does not know. I also know first hand how businesses like this can be destroyed. I will come to that later.

Despite general appearances I have not been an unhinged cheerleader, it is simply that there was an overwhelming majority of things to truthfully defend the business from compared to the precisely two things I have noticed that Tesla in my opinion could have done better.

The second (chronologically) one was the battery swap announcement - I wrote on Seeking Alpha prior to the 20th that it would indeed be battery swap that would be demonstrated, I also wrote that the stock would go up if it was presented with a business case, and I wrote that the stock would slide into the $90s as a buying opportunity and then recover if it was announced as a gimmick without a compelling business case. The latter occurred, the stock slid significantly into the $90s and rebounded 7+%. As it turned out the real rationale for demonstrating (not just announcing) battery swap was to qualify Tesla for an enhancement to the ZEV credit program. As it happens I believe that there is in fact a huge additional-revenue-stream business case for battery swap (a rental/vending machine for 85KWh and 160KWh 500 mile range batteries for example that serves also to enable the reintroduction of a low-cost 40KWh Model S with an ever-present upgrade path and massive road-trip optionality as part of the customer value proposition. I also suspect quite a few P85 owners would take the opportunity to upgrade to a 500 mile range P160 given the chance even if it did cost a fortune).

While my (chronologically) second highlighted concern is not really a criticism (because there is arguably a benefit in not confusing the market with the battery swap business case when that could be rolled out at any time in the future) my first concern: The announcement surrounding Tesla Finance was, and is both a concern and a criticism to this day. To a large extent that concern was brushed over and never fully resolved.

The true cost of ownership of a 60Kwh base Model S net of $7500 credit while that remains in force is $916 / mo. plus energy costs of $45.25/ mo. (using Tesla's 15,000 miles p/a, 20mpg @ $4.90 figures and net of $261 saved) plus insurance and road tax. That is $961.25 plus insurance and road tax.

It is not $579 / mo.

I have thought it through many times, and I have to say I cannot think of a more effective way of getting the fuel savings front and center of the customer's mind set. None the less, financially $579 / mo. still is not true. It is true to say that an equivalently priced and financed ICE vehicle (after EV tax credits) will cost $916 per month PLUS $306.25 / mo. (using Tesla's 15,000 miles /a, 20mpg @ $4.90 figures) coming to an even more expensive $1,222.25

In reality we are comparing

$916+ $45.25 = $961.25 (Tesla base 60 literally true cost of ownership with electricity priced at $11 cts per KWh)
with
$916+ $306.25 = $1222.25 for an equivalently priced ICE vehicle pulling 20mpg @ $4.90.

There is nothing at all that serves to reduce the true cost to a family budget further than these numbers when owning a Tesla Model S unless the cost of electricity is reduced from 11 cents / KWh.

While there is nothing wrong with paying $961.25 /mo to drive a fantastic car one really wants (instead of the straight choice of shelling out $71070K up front while waiting for a $7500 tax rebate), especially if one were previously budgeting for $1222.25 / mo. Nevertheless I cannot see any way at all of resolving these numbers to $579 as a true rather than a false impression of the cost of ownership, and yet this figure persists alongside the Order button on the website.

The reason I don't think this was solved by the second finance announcement is that all it did was to ameliorate the even more misleading figure of $500 without changing policy with respect to financial transparency and in fact did more to overpower the real issue (of transparency) with an upgrade of the residual guarantee from 43% to 50% for the base Model S 60. To this day I am in awe of the fact that Tesla got away with this distraction tactic without being hung in the court of public opinion, particularly for omitting to mention that the 50% did not apply to the balance of "upgrades", for example the balance of a Model S P85 or anything above the cost of the base Model S 60KWh. Additionally the fact that the whole Tesla Finance package only applies to a small number of US States somehow got lost in the fine print too.

I do believe the Tesla mission to electrify transport is valid and that it is fundamentally vital that it succeeds on a grand scale and I am entirely confident that it is on track to do that. I also believe that the opposition that Tesla faces to establish itself as a tranformative force in the auto industry is by contrast morally repugnant: Those who have failed to experience "issues" with auto dealership sharp practice I suspect are in the minority or simply were not aware of it. Watching the public being blatantly duped by big-money-backed disinformation campaigns and pseudo-official looking organizations claiming that Hydrogen and NG are clean energy sources aimed at tackling CO2 emissions induces a sense of injustice that I can barely describe (I think the latter should be hunted down and charged with defrauding both customers and shareholders alike and with respect to future generations: Conspiracy to commit genocide).

Tesla in my view is an important opposing force against some pretty horrible business practices, and as such would do well to contrast itself entirely from any possible hint of misconduct and also to guard especially against unresolved resentments. In that light I can see a red thread running through the business that appeared on the surface with respect to Tesla Finance and again in these discussions about Sig Angst. I think it should pay attention to tucking that thread back in.

The most extraordinary thing about Tesla is not the technology. There is nothing in the Model S that could not be created or even exceeded by any visionary leader who knew what he was aiming for and why and had the money to hire the engineering expertise to make it happen. I would be happy for the opportunity to prove it. No, the truly extraordinary thing (and the most disruptive thing) about Tesla is the business and its financing. Tesla represents one of the most risky gambles ever undertaken with other people's money (with their knowledge) to such a degree that it effectively breaks a number of the standing paradigms of capitalism. (It is far from surprising to me in any case that the shorts are repeatedly drawn in and routed by TSLA). If for example the first Roadsters, or the first Model S vehicles for that matter had not been delivered to pre-paid reservation holders and instead the company had gone bust (which without the reservation holder's money it may well have done), then the entire business model could be considered entirely indistinguishable from a confidence trick, literally. To this day, the business maintains a book of thousands of deposits for vehicles it cannot afford to build without customer pre-payment, certainly if the company had to build the cars and take cash on delivery or worse still, deliver to dealers on credit in the normal mode of an auto manufacturer, none of the forward looking metrics of the business would be valid.

But Tesla does get pre-payment, it does build and deliver the cars and the cars are superlative. In that process the customer willingness to trust the company with money, be it in the form of Sig deposits or payment on confirming the configuration prior to delivery for each and every production vehicle, this trust is absolutely beyond any and all doubt the single greatest asset of this business comparable only to Mr Musk's own history of willingness to risk his own money in a similar manner. Risking that trust with $500s and $579s, and failing to resolve "Sig Angst" resentment issues (or anything like it) is to my mind the single greatest real danger that Tesla faces. (The other one is opening up a side-door to cash-flow-negative sales in the form of an unlimited replenishment of sold-off loaners - they need to cap loaner sales to one or even three months of age at the earliest or risk breaking the spell that is the Tesla business model).

Without a doubt, Tesla is on track to a roaring financial success across the globle. In that process I would suggest that it is of paramount importance that the power of the emotion: "hold on a minute, you could not have done it without me" is not allowed to erupt into a brand-level issue. The emotional bank account with Sig customers and supporters must not be allowed to go into the red in inverse proportion to the financial account or there will be trouble. Trust me on this point.
 
That's an interesting analysis. The "good" news (from a Tesla investor point of view, or anyone who wants the company to survive and thrive) is that there are "only" 1200 Sig owners from North America, and a similar number in Europe and Asia, so the "Sig Angst" is limited to a relatively very small group of individuals.

That said, I always thought it was Tesla's biggest (and really, only obvious and ongoing) mistake to charge Sig owners extra for their cars that are reserved with a much larger deposit and are already fully loaded (i.e., Tesla makes whatever profit they make already from someone ordering a fully loaded car with almost every option). I never understood why Tesla took the risk of charging Sigs in the US extra, and see that they are apparently making the same mistake in Europe. The extra revenue simply isn't worth it, IMO, for the reason that Julian outlines. These are, presumably going to be your most loyal and vocal supporters in the region/market, so why do anything to disappoint or upset them? Simply charging Sig owners the same price for a comparably optioned car would eliminate much/most of the Sig Angst, and allow these people to be uninhibited in their devotion to Tesla.

After nine months, I couldn't be any happier with my car. As I figured, I've completely forgiven Tesla at this point because I love driving my car every day, service has been spectacular and I love everyone who works for the company. But I haven't forgotten my annoyance with Tesla during that whole time period before the car was delivered, and am still dumbfounded as to why a company that gets so much right can't seem to figure out how to truly delight Sig owners, which would seem like a relatively important thing (although, it would appear, not a bet-the-company type of issue, fortunately).
 
That's an interesting analysis. The "good" news (from a Tesla investor point of view, or anyone who wants the company to survive and thrive) is that there are "only" 1200 Sig owners from North America, and a similar number in Europe and Asia, so the "Sig Angst" is limited to a relatively very small group of individuals. (although, it would appear, not a bet-the-company type of issue, fortunately).

The purpose of writing the above was a bit like the purpose of anticipating a stock movement, it is supposed to be non-obvious otherwise it has little value. I have to say that the technical and logistic issues surrounding getting the first Sigs out of the door in the USA should probably be understood by one and all to have been a higher priority to Musk and the team than customer comms, and a bit of a shambles just adds authenticity to the innovative start up feel.

Resentment issues are much more likely to surface much later, for example when the company is obviously very far from struggling and the CEO is zooming up the Forbes rich list, meanwhile the guys and gals that put up $40K at near total risk and waited forever with the heartfelt wish for the company to succeed got overlooked in the big picture. I came across a Roadster owner elsewhere venting dissent regarding Musk's TESLive comment that something cool but unspecified would be done for Roadster owners was a more of a case of promoting the stock than keeping faith, and I felt that coming across this thread was too much of a coincidence to ignore.

From my own experience this is an early warning that is best caught and dealt with while dealing with it remains a gift of appreciation. Competitor dissent is no problem, customer murmurings of a breach of faith or trust amongst the group invited to feel as "family" with the company is dangerous in brand like this. I would recommend to give them plenty of time to get well clear of start up mode but conversely to the company I would recommend placing an accelerated priority on addressing the sentiments expressed here, US Sig customers in particular. It could be as simple as an occasional Sig-customer-only email invite to store and gallery openings and other public events that Musk was attending for sun-visor signing - max 50 or 100 RSVPs per event via the web site, maybe something more material to look forward to when 1200 units of something would represent more of a rounding error than it would have done in Q1 or Q2. I would suspect that adding the extended service package as a compliment would be a good idea for newly introduced vehicles in any case.

I have objected in the past to the idea of placing a material incentive on customer referred sales because I like the purity of a pure referral (any MS owner can participate in the success of the company including referred sales via TSLA stock ownership). This Sig Angst issue is different, and something I think should be taken seriously.

In general terms, it is not financial or even competitive issues that could stunt Tesla's growth or actually harm Tesla at this stage or for the foreseeable future, the place to pay particular attention is in discharging obligations of gratitude to friendly parties that have invested emotion as much as money in the business on the way up. On the plus side, this is what helps set the tone for the brand, on the defensive side it is worth noting that Roman emperors were at far greater risk of being stabbed or poisoned by members of their own family than slain in battle, and so it goes with cause-driven brands also.
 
So that $5,000 is only on the Performace model.
So looking at the base 85kWh, the Sig has more extensive leather on the inside (all Sigs do). If that were an option, Tesla likely would have charged more than $1,500. They might have even charged more for the Sig red paint if that had made it avaliable. Assuming connectivity will be $25-30 a month the one free year is worth maybe $300. That brings the Sug premium down to $2,500 or so for early delivery which was worth it to some and not to others.

Can someone point to where Tesla said their would be a 'significant' gap in deliveries from the Signature models to production?
 
Assuming connectivity will be $25-30 a month the one free year is worth maybe $300. That brings the Sig premium down to...
So you think they're going to back-charge early production Model S vehicles for the "accidental extra" connectivity they've gotten so far?

- - - Updated - - -

Can someone point to where Tesla said their would be a 'significant' gap in deliveries from the Signature models to production?
If it wasn't (/isn't) supposed to be "significant" then they shouldn't have (be) listed (listing) it as the first and most prominent of the reasons to upgrade to Signature Model S (X).

"Here are three reasons why you should get our premium model: (1) INSIGNIFICANT REASON A, (b) reason b, and (c) reason c." It's a really poor sales pitch approach if they've done that, so their marketing is then "horrible" instead of "misleading". You'd prefer that Tesla has horrible marketing rather than misleading marketing? Hm.
 
So you think they're going to back-charge early production Model S vehicles for the "accidental extra" connectivity they've gotten so far?

Where did I say that? I can't see that they will back charge anyone. Assuming the people that are getting connectivity keep it that is a slight savings. Either way the premium is what it is. It was and still is a voluntary contract and something anyone could have backed out of prior to finalizing.
 
Where did I say that? I can't see that they will back charge anyone.
You were making the argument that the included connectivity should be considered as part of the Sig premium. For that to be the case it has to be, actually, you know... a benefit of the Sig offering vs. general production. So if general production cars get it as well, it's not a Sig benefit.

It's somewhat like saying "metal pedals are a Sig benefit". Well, they are for "Sig 85 vs. 85" but they aren't for "Sig Perf vs. Perf" since all flavors of Perf have the metal pedals.
 
Besides the people who got crossed over on their delivery with production models (who I can understand maybe why thy are upset) nowhere have I seen it written that Tesla said they would take a time out after Signature production to let us enjoy our car before anyone else could. Is that what you are asking for? I really don't see your issue with the lack of a gap in delivery.
 
If it wasn't (/isn't) supposed to be "significant" then they shouldn't have (be) listed (listing) it as the first and most prominent of the reasons to upgrade to Signature Model S (X).

"Here are three reasons why you should get our premium model: (1) INSIGNIFICANT REASON A, (b) reason b, and (c) reason c." It's a really poor sales pitch approach if they've done that, so their marketing is then "horrible" instead of "misleading". You'd prefer that Tesla has horrible marketing rather than misleading marketing? Hm.

I agree with a lot of complaints, but this one I definitely don't. They said the sigs would be first, but I can't imagine any scenario where the first production wouldn't immediately follow the last sig. Didn't people really think they were going to shut down the factory and go on vacation for a couple months while the sig owners enjoyed their cars?

(edit: what DSM said.)