So… Highland is out…

[bainsy]

I like the refresh of highland.

My only issue is the stalks.
Now I can understand the drive selector. Thats fair enough, having it on screen really isnt that big of a deal. (I mean everything else is)

The one I dont like is the indicators... How do you indicate on a roundabout? Dont think its an issue other than the US which is the concern for me. Car has focused too much on US roads, rather than European/Asian roads.

Anyway, there will end up being a Ali Express knock off eventually which puts a physical button in a fixed location

 

[Mrklaw]

sooner than you think (although still not happy to be considering a third party mod as a requirement before buying a new car)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1700857465020039311

 

[Drew57]

Someone (with no sense of reality) will be along soon to tell you that Tesla are so ahead in EV development that no other manufacturer has even a scoobies of getting close for at least 10 years.

 

[Durzel]

And BMW's (much as I dislike the brand) deprecate rather more slowly than Tesla's so the 'cost to own' is probably very similar.

Yeah the delusion that EVs don't depreciate like ICE cars and Teslas even less so ought to have been shattered by now by how much Model 3/Y prices have been crushed in recent months.

Tesla having loads of margin across the cars also doesn't help existing owners either, particularly as they've shown they'll cleave significant sums off the retail price on a whim if volume isn't sufficiently high enough for their needs. If I were running a used car business I'm not sure I'd take one in PX given how volatlie the prices are.

 

[Mrklaw]

Yeah the delusion that EVs don't depreciate like ICE cars and Teslas even less so ought to have been shattered by now by how much Model 3/Y prices have been crushed in recent months.

Tesla having loads of margin across the cars also doesn't help existing owners either, particularly as they've shown they'll cleave significant sums off the retail price on a whim if volume isn't sufficiently high enough for their needs. If I were running a used car business I'm not sure I'd take one in PX given how volatlie the prices are.

functionally its not hugely different to big ICE dealers giving financial incentives/dealer contributions/discounts for 'demo' cars - they just tend to avoid changing the RRP to pretend the car still has X value. Perhaps to avoid upsetting the previous BMW driver that just bought the same car I did a week ago but for £5k more?

 

[Leejmoff]

Apropos of nothing but I sat in a 23 plate BMW 430i today, to move it around a car park, and I was struck by just how nice the interior materials were. The seats were leagues above my M3P one (and this is just a regular M Power car, not an M3), far more side bolster support, etc. Felt like I was much lower slung in the car too.

I’d forgotten just how good German marques were inside. Obviously far too many buttons, but the difference in material quality in all aspects of the car is night and day. The screens (2) were really nice too, really immersive.

How does this relate to Highland? Well, I was interested in switching my 2020 car next year when it becomes available here (or sooner), but looking at this BMW and then thinking about all of the things that don’t work on Teslas generally, or are conspicuously absent - I’d be buying a car with no functional parking assist, crap auto wipers, matrix headlights that don’t do anything (pretty lol that they were delivered on 2021 cars here and Tesla replaced the car before ever bothering to get it working). The fact I’ve had no discernible benefit from buying FSD irks me too.

Starting to think the only thing I’d really be buying the new one for is the software UX.

Once the network is open on all chargers (fingers crossed soon) I'll be jumping ship asap. There is no other reason to stay with Tesla in my opinion.

 

[Mrklaw]

Once the network is open on all chargers (fingers crossed soon) I'll be jumping ship asap. There is no other reason to stay with Tesla in my opinion.

i like their satnav. Thats about it - satnav and charger access.

 

[Singuy]

Really?

So if they are so busy prioritising 'not leaving customers stranded' why did they introduce what must have been a significant distraction and internal resource drain by deleting USS and re-inventing this particular very well devloped 'wheel' with a camera based system?!

Based on posts here and elsewhere, I am pretty sure you are a little (!) wide of the mark when you say that no-one uses this system - forums are full of people who appreciate the guidance offered by Park Assist in highlighting obstacles / estimating distances to these when parking!

Significant distraction? They deleted USS to save money because they were reducing prices. People knew how to park for a century without USS...I think the world is not going to end without it.

 

[GlynG]

Significant distraction? They deleted USS to save money because they were reducing prices. People knew how to park for a century without USS...I think the world is not going to end without it.

The world wouldn't end if they also removed the motors from the windows and fitted a handle, or made the seats a manual adjustment, fixed mirrors, removed autopilot, or the app to control lots of functions on the car - but - would you still buy one?

 

[Durzel]

It's more what it's symbolic of, really.

I can park well enough, but at the same time I use ultrasonics for precision and confirmation. Higher end cars nowadays (and for some time) have intelligent, adaptive headlights that mask out other cars oncoming or in front of you so you have maximum illumination of your surroundings without blinding people. These same higher end cars have lane keeping, self parking that actually works, automatic wipers that you don't even think about because they just work.

All of this technology exists and has done for years, and if you're paying a decent amount for a car it's not unreasonable to expect it. It's particularly shocking when this basic stuff doesn't exist or doesn't work properly on a car from a company that sells itself on being "the tech person's car". The reason these things don't work on modern Teslas is not because the technology is immature, or even particularly expensive, it's because Tesla would rather save a relatively paltry amount to maximise their profit margins. The customers suffer, and the customers don't even have the choice to spec these things as an option.

Beyond class leading range, the SC network, and the software UX - I'm struggling to justify why I still have my Model 3 to be honest, and this is brought into sharp focus whenever I happen to sit in or drive any remotely new, similarly priced car. I'm frankly sick and tired of Tesla removing things from these cars without a substitute system available. Tesla Vision Park Assist is a poor alternative to ultrasonics, and didn't arrive on the scene until a full 6 months after they had already started removing sensors from delivered cars. Matrix headlights were shipped on the first Shanghai cars, and nothing has been done with them since then. They are utterly dumb, beyond a gimmick feature during another gimmick (Lightshow).

There are aspects of my car that I like, but more often than not now I find myself unimpressed with the things being removed purely for margin-boosting, the glacial or backwards pace of automated driving in the UK & Europe, etc. I find myself asking myself why I should drop £55k+ again on another M3P (or whatever replaces it) when Tesla will just kick me in the balls with a £10k price drop at some point, when none of the convenience tech that is ubiquitous exists or works, etc. There comes a point where one starts to question why one is putting up with it.

 

[Singuy]

The world wouldn't end if they also removed the motors from the windows and fitted a handle, or made the seats a manual adjustment, fixed mirrors, removed autopilot, or the app to control lots of functions on the car - but - would you still buy one?

At the right price.

 

[Whyone]

Significant distraction? They deleted USS to save money because they were reducing prices. People knew how to park for a century without USS...I think the world is not going to end without it.

No, you are quite correct, the world will keep turning.

I will also manage to park the car just fine.

However, when I spend a significant amount of money with a company who then deliver to me a product with a different specification to the one I was demonstrated and ordered without even mentioning it to me before, during or after delivery and then variously lie to me and treat me with utter contempt when I have the temerity to question this, i don't think it unreasonable for me to feel just a little less than well disposed towards them.

Some weeks ago they informed me that, in their opinion, the Vision based system has achieved 'performance parity' with the old one. However, they refuse to tell me what parameters they have used to reach this (astonishing) conclusion.

...and could we keep the 'goalposts' of this argument still please? A short while ago you said Tesla's priority was not leaving customers stranded, suddenly, now it's cost savings that drove USS deletion.

...and yes, a 'significant' distraction for them - in my discussions with Customer Relations they assure me they have a 'significant' (their word) technical team working on the development of Vision based Park Assist. Though if you were to argue otherwise on this assertion, frankly given the dire state of the sytem, you'd get no quarrel from me!

 

[Singuy]

No, you are quite correct, the world will keep turning.

I will also manage to park the car just fine.

However, when I spend a significant amount of money with a company who then deliver to me a product with a different specification to the one I was demonstrated and ordered without even mentioning it to me before, during or after delivery and then variously lie to me and treat me with utter contempt when I have the temerity to question this, i don't think it unreasonable for me to feel just a little less than well disposed towards them.

Some weeks ago they informed me that, in their opinion, the Vision based system has achieved 'performance parity' with the old one. However, they refuse to tell me what parameters they have used to reach this (astonishing) conclusion.

...and could we keep the 'goalposts' of this argument still please? A short while ago you said Tesla's priority was not leaving customers stranded, suddenly, now it's cost savings that drove USS deletion.

...and yes, a 'significant' distraction for them - in my discussions with Customer Relations they assure me they have a 'significant' (their word) technical team working on the development of Vision based Park Assist. Though if you were to argue otherwise on this assertion, frankly given the dire state of the sytem, you'd get no quarrel from me!

Without ever mentioning what? I just ordered a Y and I had to accept a disclaimer that USS are no longer on the car.

 

[Whyone]

Without ever mentioning what? I just ordered a Y and I had to accept a disclaimer that USS are no longer on the car.

Lucky you.

Clearly they have learnt something (ie. to cover their arses!) from this PR cluster-f**k.

I was presented with no notification, no disclaimer opportunity, just a damaged (but that's another story) USS-less / Park Assist-less car.

 

[zoomer0056]

At the right price.

Those deletes really would be a minimalist car. Set the price right so that most of it would be paying for the battery. A basic car to get you from point A to point B.

 

[Singuy]

Lucky you.

I was presented with no notification, no disclaimer opportunity, just a damaged (but that's another story) USS-less / Park Assist-less car.

Pretty sure everyone had to sign the document as one of the last steps in proceeding to buy the car. Maybe you didn't read it?

 

[Singuy]

Those deletes really would be a minimalist car. Set the price right so that most of it would be paying for the battery. A basic car to get you from point A to point B.

Correct, gen 3 platform may not even come with a wheel. Who knows..but got to get the price down and make money.

 

[browellm]

Sometimes wonder why we have a UK specific forum, then get a timely reminder.

 

[Whyone]

Pretty sure everyone had to sign the document as one of the last steps in proceeding to buy the car. Maybe you didn't read it?

This belief is based upon what precisely?

Whatever it is, you are 100%, categorically incorrect and I resent your assertion that this may be down to negligence on my part (there is also a fatal flaw in your suggestion, but you are clearly a smart fellow so I'll let you work that one out!)

It is well documented that a significant number of people who ordered cars in March/April/May 2022 (when the demo cars in UK dealers and the Tesla UK website had/showed USS based Park Assist) recieved USS-less cars on November/December 2022 without notification of the change nor a disclaimer to be signed accepting the change.

 

[qwickshot]

But what you forget is no one ever pays list price for a BMW so in reality the price difference is not that big

Tesla also discounts… 0% and money off.

What ever way you look at it, a model 3 standard range is considerably cheaper than an i4 30 and it comes with more standard equipment. The same applies to the LR vs the 40.

The cheapest i4 for immediate delivery is £52k, has no options and what ever you don’t pay upfront is at 5.9%. There is a £2k finance contribution but the finance costs wipe out that saving and then some.

Model 3 long range RWD is £47k @ 0%.

It’s a batter car but it’s materially more expensive.