Software Update 2018.21.9 75bdbc11

[boonedocks]

Maybe we need a sticky about this... Wiggles don't work (reliably), squeezes don't work, the orange and other 'cheats' do/may work because they are sensed as a weight on the wheel (as if your hand is there), preventing the wheel from turning.

We definitely need something. I don't have "shaky hands" and don't grip the steering wheel like I'm about to slip off a cliff. I simply hold the wheel bottom left or bottom right, or both, with my arm resting on my leg(s) There have been several occasions where EAP decided it wanted to divert in direction contrary to the actual lane or road for that matter where I have had to instantly correct it and disengage so my "technique" of holding the steering wheel is sound and not an unusual or unsafe method. Update 21.9 requires a completely different hold of the steering wheel than I have ever had to do to satisfy the nag and when it does pop up way to much torque, pressure, turn....whatever, is needed to satisfy the nag.

If people continue to watch as their cars careen into a wall or firetruck I fear the EAP part of our cars will become more of a nuisance than a benefit. Having to pay more attention to whether or not you are applying enough resistance to your steering wheel to stop a nag vs holding the wheel and watching what it going on around you is quickly getting out of hand.

 

[GWord]

My driving style is to obey the Autopilot requirements to hold the wheel 100% of the time (although I only use a few fingers on one hand). I apply a gentle torque from a rested arm and, using that technique, I get zero nags. This new update is no different; no nags and AP steering works fine. As a side benefit I can feel where AP is trying to steer which gives me a faster reaction time when it tries to do something crazy.

 

[DukeofURL]

Been following this thread, waiting to get the update... installed it last night, and from a just got back a 30minute ride. It's odd, as my experiences seemed to contradict others.
Regen: I've seen some people say they felt more and others said they felt less. Personally I thought it felt stronger, but of course that's subjective.
AP on backroads: I'd heard it was performing better, so I went to a particularly twisty area with a few hills and blind corners, and... it didn't do any better or worse than 2018.18.2 did.
Increased nags: I put my hand at around 8:00 on the wheel like I normally do, and didn't get one nag in the 15mins I spent on the highway, until I specifically kept my hands off to try to incite it. It was an uncomfortably long time for me, haha. It kept position in the lane very well, and changed lanes super smoothly (as we've become accustomed to).
Highway exit ramps: I engaged AP when I first pulled onto a ramp, it set the max speed to 65, but stayed at 30mph the whole way, and held the middle of the lane confidently up to a 90 degree turn of the wheel. It then eased up to 65 and merged in confidently as well. I tried it upon exiting with TACC active (but not autosteer), and it worked as mentioned, but isn't of the greatest use if it can't do it itself.

Overall, it feels like AP is more aware of its surroundings, although it seemed a bit more selective in giving you the option to enable on back roads. While I was driving around on local streets, I had someone nudge over the double yellow line to make a left from the other side in front of me, the car played the alert tone at the same time I noticed this happening. The display of cars in the cluster is nice to make you, as a human, more confident of what the car is seeing, but it used to show cars in the lane you were heading for as well as the one you're in when doing an auto lane change in earlier versions.

One more thing... the increased nags are coming almost simultaneously at the time we hear FSD is right around the corner. Maybe the increased nags will be a way to differentiate FSD from EAP in the future, not just in features? Upgrade today to FSD and get less nags for only $4,000.00!

 

[mattack4000]

Yes it does. On highway they are more frequent than stop and go. Maybe ap1 or earlier cars are different, I have had no issues with the nag unless I am doing it on purpose.

Be honest, are people really holding the wheel.....

Drove another 30 miles today with no issue Holding the wheel doesn’t give me fatigue or any health or mental issues

 

[Axael]

Just as a side note, I drove with AP engaged on my way back home today. At one point I had a light motorcycle coming my way in front of me (the guy was driving on the wrong side of the road to overtake cars) and my MS applied brakes consistently and well in time to avoid the motorcycle then accelerated again once the bike was back in his lane.

 

[BruceW]

This whole thing about the nags and holding the steering wheel is beginning to bother me. Since I got the update (2days ago) I've only done about 100 miles on AP2, with one nag. I hold the wheel and make sure that I slightly resist the wheel when it wants to turn. Doesn't seem to be to be a big thing. So I don't understand all these reported problems and folks who don't want to use this release. The actual performance is better than it was. And all this stuff about oranges etc to hack the system---every accident caused by someone hacking and/or ignoring the system is feeding into the MSM hysteria about Tesla and autopilot, and may end up causing a regulatory slow down or prohibition of FSD. Use the system as intended and accept the limits. The nags being complained about now are due to those who chose to hack/ignore the system prompts to do what they were supposed to be doing all along, and the subsequent MSM headlines about Tesla's Autopilot causing another accident/death.

 

[Marc_GA]

Be honest, are people really holding the wheel.....

Yes, I am really holding the wheel, not at the 9 o'clock cross piece as shown. About 8 o'clock with my hand around wheel (thumb/fingers touching). I do have AP1 though.

What I did notice is that taking my hand off the wheel when it complains would satisfy the nag. Wiggle is not reliable, torque in one direction is.

I've also had 2 'take over immediately' when cars have done stupid things in front of me (which I approve of as it's asking to have a human pay extra attention). Normally this never happens except with roundabouts (fully expected). On side roads it seems a little worse, highways seem the same.

 

[Marc_GA]

And all this stuff about oranges etc to hack the system---every accident caused by someone hacking and/or ignoring the system is feeding into the MSM hysteria about Tesla and autopilot

Fully agree. I hate seeing videos of this or with people having their hands off playing on their phones. All accidents at this point cause bad press regardless of blame and will just make the system less useful as more restrictions are added.

I personally think AP1 around late last year was the best its been.

 

[Penfold]

Installed today and then drove 65miles. The nag is frustrating, having 2 hands on the wheel and I am having to put added pressure to stop the nags. I don’t mind being nagged if I actually don’t have my hands on the wheel (not going to happen) but to have to change my driving style for this update is not good at all. Yes AP seems better in some instances, seems to hold a line better thanks 2018.18.2 but the nags actually make it unsafe as sometimes I am putting more pressure on to stop the nags but then actually disengage and potentially swerve. Everyone will have there own opinion, and mine is that this is a step to far in an attempt to cover crashes so they have more chance to say ‘hand were not on the wheel’. Well my hands were on the wheel for the whole 65 miles of which 50 are motorway and had approximately 26 nags during that time.

 

[chillaban]

More 21.9 impressions:

I'm seeing some evidence of safety improvements. It reacted (appropriately slowed down) in response to oncoming cars entering my lane, and oncoming cars turning left across my lane. This happened 3 of 3 times I had this happen over lunch. I've never seen it reliably do this before.

I'm also noticing that it's picking even slower speeds than before around curves. It definitely used to slow for curves, but now it's slowing even more. This seems to be helping it negotiate harder turns.

With that said, I'm not seeing any sort of miraculous improvements unlike the 10.4 release.

 

[d21mike]

I got 2018.21.9 last night and just took about a 45 minute drive on surface streets and on the freeway. I did not get 1 nag using my 1 hand on the steering wheel method I have been using for a long time. Very similar to how I drive when driving myself on trips.

Very happy with the progress of AP.

 

[BruceW]

Installed today and then drove 65miles. The nag is frustrating, having 2 hands on the wheel and I am having to put added pressure to stop the nags. I don’t mind being nagged if I actually don’t have my hands on the wheel (not going to happen) but to have to change my driving style for this update is not good at all. Yes AP seems better in some instances, seems to hold a line better thanks 2018.18.2 but the nags actually make it unsafe as sometimes I am putting more pressure on to stop the nags but then actually disengage and potentially swerve. Everyone will have there own opinion, and mine is that this is a step to far in an attempt to cover crashes so they have more chance to say ‘hand were not on the wheel’. Well my hands were on the wheel for the whole 65 miles of which 50 are motorway and had approximately 26 nags during that time.

This is another thing I don't understand--"pressure"-- are you holding the wheel tighter, or are you slightly resisting the automatic movements of the steering wheel while in autopilot. I hold the wheel lightly and resist the movement, and it seems to work on my March 2017 S100D. If you are doing the same, and still getting lots of nags, perhaps it is a hardware problem with your car, and a bug report or call to SC may be wise.

 

[RGagne1975]

I have been testing a road with every new version of firmware. This road isn't difficult as it is a divided four lane with 'turn around' segments every so often and the road only has a couple long sweeping curves. With 2018.10.4 the car would navigate the road perfectly. With 2018.18 the car would slightly jerk to the left as it passed each turn around point. Now with 2018.21.9 it jerks quite hard to the left at these sections. Also on US Hwy 51 in Tennessee going south from Millington toward Memphis there is quite a bit of phantom braking now. It seems like AP has regressed a little since 2018.10.4. My car is a S90D AP 2.0 car.

 

[jdjeff88]

Agree this version is an improvement. I never get nags with light resistance on the wheel and this hasn't changed. Many other behaviors improved. Still think seeing the vehicles ahead of me and to the side is nothing but a party trick when it is clear that the car sees them whether they are displayed or not, and the cars that appear jump around some, appear to veer into my lane and otherwise do disconcerting things in the virtual world that they are not doing in real life.

 

[chillaban]

Agree this version is an improvement. I never get nags with light resistance on the wheel and this hasn't changed. Many other behaviors improved. Still think seeing the vehicles ahead of me and to the side is nothing but a party trick when it is clear that the car sees them whether they are displayed or not, and the cars that appear jump around some, appear to veer into my lane and otherwise do disconcerting things in the virtual world that they are not doing in real life.

The funny thing is that my complaint about AP1 was the opposite. It would strongly err on the side of showing cars centered in adjacently drawn lanes, moving smoothly past me, regardless of whether or not that was what was actually happening.

I'm not sure which I like better. Neither, I think!

 

[croman]

Car is definitely more wild in local roads.

 

[SucreTease]

The nag is frustrating, having 2 hands on the wheel and I am having to put added pressure to stop the nags.

No, no, no... [drops face into hands]

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2802321/

 

[conman]

Having seen the extra cars in the other lanes, it makes me wonder why it never shows vehicles going in the opposite direction on a two way street. Obviously there is an effort to categorise things that are ahead in the neural network but I wonder if there is not much effort to categorise things going the other way or to short cut the recognition and lump them all in together as "thing moving this way that shouldn't be in our path."

 

[boonedocks]

Another 136 mile day and the nags are just incredibly frustrating. I have to literally drive for A/P, using more force / resistance / torque , than if I was steering myself. This is what is so frustrating. I have never had to literally babysit AutoPilot... just be there in the background holding the wheel. Now I am having to steer more than it does. Just ridiculous..

 

[chillaban]

Another 136 mile day and the nags are just incredibly frustrating. I have to literally drive for A/P, using more force / resistance / torque , than if I was steering myself. This is what is so frustrating. I have never had to literally babysit AutoPilot... just be there in the background holding the wheel. Now I am having to steer more than it does. Just ridiculous..

It really might be worth raising this with your service center and/or going on a test drive with them. This doesn't sound normal. I've also got an AP2 100D and find that in all 3 steering resistance settings, a reasonable definition of holding the wheel does not result in nags.