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Solar PV News
- Thread starter mspohr
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- solar energy
High electric utility prices for consumers are the primary driver for Australia's solar boom. That and a streamlined permitting process that helps keep installation costs down. As penetration gets higher, the utilities are or will reduced feed-in credits for your surplus generation and that will drive battery sales. If utilities don't get on board with installing renewables themselves, they will be fighting to keep customers that have less and less need for the utility beyond backup for their own generation.
With solar PV reaching increasing curtailment in places like CA and the ITC going into sunset mode, maybe makes sense in the next administration to renew and update it to only apply to batteries.
Or at least would make sense that if solar PV remains eligible for the credit to require it be paired with a minimum amount of battery storage.
Or at least would make sense that if solar PV remains eligible for the credit to require it be paired with a minimum amount of battery storage.
ITC should be renewed in full with batteries. Shouldn't expire until we are 100% renewables.
I don't think ITC should go that long. However, it should have a slower ramp down than the current law. I would propose something like 30% flat to 2025 and drop 2% per year though 2040.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I don't follow why this is true. I sincerely doubt that the high utility charges to the consumer are due to coal. Perhaps a penny or two.per kWh
Isn't that regulatory ? I doubt the utilities are paying now out because they want to.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
"
bought a typical 6.57-kilowatt system for his home after he grew tired of his rising electricity bill. Before he installed the $3,000 system,
"
Can that be accurate pricing ?
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Yep... In Australia you can pop down to the local IKEA and pickup a system for ~$0.48 per watt, depending on the state.
https://7news.com.au/technology/ikea-solar-panels-on-sale-in-australia-c-1090430
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Eight 370 watt panels does not a 6.6 kW system make
Addendum:
I found an advert from IKEA Melbourne. 18 panels, so the price is real but not market cost since it includes a $2000 state credit but it is still crazy cheap.
OTOH the package that includes a 6.5 kWh battery is another ~ AUS $6,000
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
If you were thinking that is not cheap enough, Victoria e.g also offers a 4 year interest free loan that covers ~ about 1/2 of the consumer cost after tax credit so it works out this way:
$ AUS (0.71 $ US)
$5500 total for 6.6 kW
-- $1800 state credit in Victoria
-- $1800 0% APR loan over 4 years
-- $1900 out of pocket
Are you guys keeping up, or are you out of breath like me ?
$1330 USD out of pocket for 6.6 kW. Those Aussies do not talk in years until the system is paid off; they talk in months. I was curious why Australia is only 50% home PV in the most advanced areas. I presume most of the answer is that ~ 1/3 of households rent.
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its a federal credit in Australia, not a state credit. and it is calculated based upon postcode https://www.energymatters.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/rec-zone-calculations.pdf
simply stated, locations with poor solar productivity (cough cold cloudy melbourne, hobart) earns less credits than locations with great solar productivity (NT desert Uluru Ayers Rock). Its a compromise between simplicity and precision, the intent is pay for solar pv output, not cost of system.
part of the result is that cheaper rural places tend to also have higher stc credits, a virtuous cycle that promotes cheap solar install. Think of it another, If states along the USA/Mexico border received 37% greater credits per unit installed than the coastal states along the USA/Canada border, then more solar would be installed where it best generates....
it also promotes a race to bottom of the price curve, as the cheaper a system is, the greater percentage of the total cost is absorbed by the credits. an opposite effect to USA cost based system where the greater the cost per unit installed, the greater the credit. (how anti-productive) no wonder America lags on domestic solar install, their system penalizes the cost effective installers.
simply stated, locations with poor solar productivity (cough cold cloudy melbourne, hobart) earns less credits than locations with great solar productivity (NT desert Uluru Ayers Rock). Its a compromise between simplicity and precision, the intent is pay for solar pv output, not cost of system.
part of the result is that cheaper rural places tend to also have higher stc credits, a virtuous cycle that promotes cheap solar install. Think of it another, If states along the USA/Mexico border received 37% greater credits per unit installed than the coastal states along the USA/Canada border, then more solar would be installed where it best generates....
it also promotes a race to bottom of the price curve, as the cheaper a system is, the greater percentage of the total cost is absorbed by the credits. an opposite effect to USA cost based system where the greater the cost per unit installed, the greater the credit. (how anti-productive) no wonder America lags on domestic solar install, their system penalizes the cost effective installers.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Interesting.
FYI, STC stands for 'standard testing conditions.' Funny that Aussies use it as a unit equal to 1.0 annual kWh/watt production at STC.
Your contention about the effect of the US subsidy is a lot more wrong than right. The consumer does not care what fraction of the system cost is borne by the gov, s/he cares about out of pocket cost. Every reduction of $1 in cost by the installer puts about $0.78 more cents in the US consumer's pocket. You can bet that the US consumer is total system price conscious
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dgpcolorado
high altitude member
A half dozen years ago my sister and late brother-in-law installed a 4500 watt ground-mount solar array in central Oregon for an out-of-pocket cost of $1000. They bought a kit system, installed it themselves including building the racks, and hired a solar-qualified electrician to do the final hookup. They were helped by federal and state tax credits, as well as a substantial utility rebate.
By contrast, my professionally built pole-mount 2170 watt system, installed in 2008 and 2012, when panels were still expensive, was never cost-effective (payback in the 25 to 30 year range IIRC). [I dug the deep post holes and conduit trench, through rocky glacial moraine, and did my own concrete work.] I installed solar because I wanted to "drive on sunshine" and budgeted it as part of the cost of my first electric car. I figured that "people buy less useful toys than solar panels, do they not?"
People have a tendency to calculate the ROI on home solar to the second decimal place, then they drop $50k or $100k on a fancy new car without batting an eye. I don't get it.
By contrast, my professionally built pole-mount 2170 watt system, installed in 2008 and 2012, when panels were still expensive, was never cost-effective (payback in the 25 to 30 year range IIRC). [I dug the deep post holes and conduit trench, through rocky glacial moraine, and did my own concrete work.] I installed solar because I wanted to "drive on sunshine" and budgeted it as part of the cost of my first electric car. I figured that "people buy less useful toys than solar panels, do they not?"
People have a tendency to calculate the ROI on home solar to the second decimal place, then they drop $50k or $100k on a fancy new car without batting an eye. I don't get it.
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to be more precise, we use STC as a stand in for (lifetime kWh) production. with life time being originally 20 years, now, the lifetime of the scheme remaining. In the past, both orientation and angle of the roof was also factored in, but that seems less so today.
the state subsidy was actioned via feed in tariffs, VS federal subsidy actioned via one-off market credit for lifetime production, taken off install price.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Ahh ... so your watt of STC power produces around 1.4 kWh lifetime ?
You should think about that.
Addendum:
I looked it up. 'STC' in this context is used to mean (small-scale) technology certificate in Australia. I presume it is featured prominently since it is used to measure the feed-in tariff (FIT.) I don't know how it is calculated
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I have a family member currently buying a very similar rated system to the above for about 2.5 times that price. for peace of mind using korean panels and USA brand invertor. but even so, the price race to the bottom makes solar competitive here, Its difficult to overstate the effect of having the credit based upon production instead of cost.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
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