Solar Roof, big price increase

[Southpasfan]

Lol Tesla is immune from bad PR. All Elon has to do is tweet some stupid meme and the tides of good fortune return to Tesla.

What documentation/support do you think a homeowner should prepare if they seeks your (3) solution through arbitration? Like I get it that saying a "Tesla Solar Roof" is not the same as the phrase "GAF roof with Canadian Solar Panels." But do you think the homeowner needs something to clearly define the position that the Tesla roof is very unique and an order to perform is a reasonable remedy?

If you define "needs" as what an actual construction lawyer would get together I have no idea, zero.

Sadly, it just seem all about the form in which people get mad. If you're so mad this makes you hate the company, you'll cancel. For some, if they can accept the price increase they still want the product. And for some, its seems that going to arbitration to save $40K is reasonable.

 

[holeydonut]

If you define "needs" as what an actual construction lawyer would get together I have no idea, zero.

Sadly, it just seem all about the form in which people get mad. If you're so mad this makes you hate the company, you'll cancel. For some, if they can accept the price increase they still want the product. And for some, its seems that going to arbitration to save $40K is reasonable.

Regarding that last point, it seems like even users like bill_woolf who had a very strong desire to go seek remedy to compel Tesla to perform were advised to just drop it after speaking with lawyers. I feel like the burden to get Tesla to do anything (install the roof or pay the delta between bids) is just too great.

Why I ordered 22+ kw solar glass roof for $134k

Hi all, long story, but I will try and abbreviate. Here's my intent: I received my new model Y (3/21/20) in GA, and already bough a new home in FL. So I said to myself (I'm old, I can talk to myself)... I should charge my new MY in my new home with solar!!!! Sounded reasonable at the...

teslamotorsclub.com

It's unfortunate Tesla really didn't suffer much negative press in this since the people "harmed" were just wealthy homeowners undeserving of the public's empathy.

 

[Southpasfan]

Considering the products it successfully produces and sells, Tesla gets more negative publicity than any company I have ever seen.

You can only blame the shorts so much, as the system allows short sellers talk down stocks like crazy with no penalties, but I guess there is just something about Musk that people don't like.

My Tesla Mode 3 and the Powerwalls are arguably the most amazing products I have ever had. You could add computers and the cell phone to the mix, I suppose, but those groundbreaking advances were not made by only one company in the face of what seems like every other competitor trying to kill them off.

Whoever gets a solar roof is getting a product which is years, if not decades, ahead of its time. No other company even seems to be attempting to make it.

 

[jimm01]

Whoever gets a solar roof is getting a product which is years, if not decades, ahead of its time. No other company even seems to be attempting to make it.

I don't know about decades. Below are some reasonable facsimiles. Plus, I've been hearing a lot from people I still know in the business that GAF Energy will release a new more integrated solar roof the end of this year or early next year.

Solar Roof - Roofit.Solar

GB-Sol :: PV Slate

LUMA Solar : Integrated Solar Roof Systems

High-quality & aesthetic solar panels

 

[holeydonut]

I don't know about decades. Below are some reasonable facsimiles. Plus, I've been hearing a lot from people I still know in the business that GAF Energy will release a new more integrated solar roof the end of this year or early next year.

Solar Roof - Roofit.Solar

GB-Sol :: PV Slate

LUMA Solar : Integrated Solar Roof Systems

High-quality & aesthetic solar panels

Yeah, if GM teased an EV at unreasonable levels to lock up preorders... and priced Tesla and competitors out of business there would be hell to pay.

But when Tesla teases abnormally low prices and prices out DOW so they go out of business. Nobody cares. The public perception against Tesla could be sooooo much worse than it is. Yes, there are shorts, but there are always shorts.

 

[FurryOne]

But when Tesla teases abnormally low prices and prices out DOW so they go out of business. Nobody cares.

If you actually look at DoW's product you'll see that it looks like a pretty half-assed attempt to integrate solar into a roof. It's pretty obvious when you look at it as opposed to Tesla's, which is why Tesla took the time to hide the PV section, as opposed to DOW's which stands out like a sore thumb. DoW missed the point - their market was people that didn't want visible PV panels on their roofs. They would have failed even if Tesla hadn't come along.

 

[holeydonut]

If you actually look at DoW's product you'll see that it looks like a pretty half-assed attempt to integrate solar into a roof. It's pretty obvious when you look at it as opposed to Tesla's, which is why Tesla took the time to hide the PV section, as opposed to DOW's which stands out like a sore thumb. DoW missed the point - their market was people that didn't want visible PV panels on their roofs. They would have failed even if Tesla hadn't come along.

I think you're projecting what you personally like about your solar roof onto everybody who is in the market for solar shingles. For example, @Bill_woolf posted the following thread. I find it hard to believe that he would have balked on the product simply because he wanted all the tiles (even the dead "soto" ones) did not match the solar tiles.

Why I ordered 22+ kw solar glass roof for $134k

Hi all, long story, but I will try and abbreviate. Here's my intent: I received my new model Y (3/21/20) in GA, and already bough a new home in FL. So I said to myself (I'm old, I can talk to myself)... I should charge my new MY in my new home with solar!!!! Sounded reasonable at the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Reading his post (and similar posts for solar roof fans), they like the concept of having to re-do their roof anyway, and combining that project with solar in an "integrated" package. Yes, it's nice all the tiles match. But is that a dealbreaker? It's hard to tell and I haven't seen data to suggest apperance is a make-or-break issue. Now, if bill_woolf comes here and says he won't touch Suntegra or the now defunct DOW product because he wants every tile on his roof to look the same, then I'll eat crow.

 

[FurryOne]

I think you're projecting what you personally like about your solar roof onto everybody who is in the market for solar shingles.

No, I gave an explanation of why I, and possibly others wouldn't buy the DOW solar roof. And I don't have a Tesla solar roof only because there are no certified installers in my area.

 

[wjgjr]

I think you're projecting what you personally like about your solar roof onto everybody who is in the market for solar shingles. For example, @Bill_woolf posted the following thread. I find it hard to believe that he would have balked on the product simply because he wanted all the tiles (even the dead "soto" ones) did not match the solar tiles.

Why I ordered 22+ kw solar glass roof for $134k

Hi all, long story, but I will try and abbreviate. Here's my intent: I received my new model Y (3/21/20) in GA, and already bough a new home in FL. So I said to myself (I'm old, I can talk to myself)... I should charge my new MY in my new home with solar!!!! Sounded reasonable at the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Reading his post (and similar posts for solar roof fans), they like the concept of having to re-do their roof anyway, and combining that project with solar in an "integrated" package. Yes, it's nice all the tiles match. But is that a dealbreaker? It's hard to tell and I haven't seen data to suggest apperance is a make-or-break issue. Now, if bill_woolf comes here and says he won't touch Suntegra or the now defunct DOW product because he wants every tile on his roof to look the same, then I'll eat crow.

I can only speak for my solar roof, but non-matching tiles would essentially be a deal-breaker, or at the least, not something I would have considered anywhere near as valuable as a product as Tesla's. Integrated is not just about it being solar and roof in one but looking like it is all one product - differentiating it from a solar panel install where it is obvious the solar is there. Of course, every customer has their own reasons for purchasing, but I do think that you may be underestimating the importance of the integrated look. And, I think the integrated look may be even more important now, where the cost may no longer be particularly competitive with new roof + solar, unlike when I purchased.

That is not to say that Tesla or another company should be intentionally under-pricing to drive competitors out of business (and that behavior can, of course, be found illegal.) But, I continue to think Tesla priced things as they did not to undercut competition but to generate sales to develop the market and, ideally, drive costs down based on learning what works and building at scale. That they seem to have failed at that strategy (and, I suspect, failed to maintain the internal controls to manage the volume of agreements they were signing) is what brought us to this issue with their mass re-pricing of contracts.

 

[bayareaever]

I can only speak for my solar roof, but non-matching tiles would essentially be a deal-breaker, or at the least, not something I would have considered anywhere near as valuable as a product as Tesla's. Integrated is not just about it being solar and roof in one but looking like it is all one product - differentiating it from a solar panel install where it is obvious the solar is there. Of course, every customer has their own reasons for purchasing, but I do think that you may be underestimating the importance of the integrated look. And, I think the integrated look may be even more important now, where the cost may no longer be particularly competitive with new roof + solar, unlike when I purchased.

That is not to say that Tesla or another company should be intentionally under-pricing to drive competitors out of business (and that behavior can, of course, be found illegal.) But, I continue to think Tesla priced things as they did not to undercut competition but to generate sales to develop the market and, ideally, drive costs down based on learning what works and building at scale. That they seem to have failed at that strategy (and, I suspect, failed to maintain the internal controls to manage the volume of agreements they were signing) is what brought us to this issue with their mass re-pricing of contracts.

Agreed, my solar roof was installed last week and many of my neighbors have asked me about it, some not even knowing there is any solar involved at all. There is simply nothing else aesthetically like it on the market.

 

[winfield100]

That was the long way around the block.

you got it.

 

[jimm01]

This is interesting. Especially the part about appealing directly to Tesla.

Tesla Solar Roof lawsuit may be moved from Pennsylvania to California

Tesla's lawyers on Wednesday said they'd seek to have a Pennsylvania class-action lawsuit moved to California, where similar complaints were filed.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[WaitingForRoof]

It seems Tesla removed the configuration for "complexity" pricing when ordering the solar roof on their site. It's now showing a set price similar to before. Estimator cost is way less than the new contract they sent me.. last thing I want is another price hike before installation and months of waiting though .

Regular panel systems seems to have gone up too, now around $2.4 per watt and requires PW purchase. I've received lower quotes from local installers with the same panels..

 

[wjgjr]

It seems Tesla removed the configuration for "complexity" pricing when ordering the solar roof on their site. It's now showing a set price similar to before. Estimator cost is way less than the new contract they sent me.. last thing I want is another price hike before installation and months of waiting though .

Regular panel systems seems to have gone up too, now around $2.4 per watt and requires PW purchase. I've received lower quotes from local installers with the same panels..

I can't believe they got rid of complexity pricing after all that, especially if it means some contracts that went up could go back down. I wonder if they found potential were too confused by the up-front options and are planning to just increase the price from the estimate once they review the roof. I actually thought complexity-based pricing made sense (just didn't support retroactive application of the new pricing to existing contracts.)

In the past, Tesla was very willing to re-price contracts to lower amounts, and given they were willing to unilaterally increase prices, they should be willing to lower them as well.

Panels may be a regional pricing thing - still $2.01/W ($8,200 for 12 panels) here.

 

[rspray2000]

This is interesting. Especially the part about appealing directly to Tesla.

Tesla Solar Roof lawsuit may be moved from Pennsylvania to California

Tesla's lawyers on Wednesday said they'd seek to have a Pennsylvania class-action lawsuit moved to California, where similar complaints were filed.

www.businessinsider.com

“Solar Roof customers could appeal directly to the company” what a load of crock. What do they think hundreds of customers did when they saw price increases? I was told via customer rep that they weren’t allowed to even elevate pricing disputes to their manager. I have yet to hear of anyone receiving a response from Tesla to their email to start the dispute / arbitration process.

 

[wjgjr]

This is interesting. Especially the part about appealing directly to Tesla.

Tesla Solar Roof lawsuit may be moved from Pennsylvania to California

Tesla's lawyers on Wednesday said they'd seek to have a Pennsylvania class-action lawsuit moved to California, where similar complaints were filed.

www.businessinsider.com

What is interesting is that the article states the options Tesla are pursuing are to move the lawsuit to CA or compel arbitration. I wonder if they are conceding there will be a lawsuit in CA or if they would just move to compel arbitration before a CA judge. The contracts themselves indicate they are governed by the laws of the state where the system is installed, which would seem to suggest it should stay in PA, with the next question being about whether the plaintiffs can get the arbitration clause invalidated, as they are attempting to do.

 

[wwu123]

Panels may be a regional pricing thing - still $2.01/W ($8,200 for 12 panels) here.

Apparently the cost of raw materials suddenly goes up as soon as one crosses the border into California...

 

[h2ofun]

Apparently the cost of raw materials suddenly goes up as soon as one crosses the border into California...

like gas

 

[holeydonut]

like gas

And the minimum wage

 

[Tdreamer]

Tesla responded to the Massachusetts Attorney General's office (AGO) yesterday, after I'd cancelled last Tuesday. I learned this because I updated the AGO today and they forwarded me the letter. My recommendation is that for anyone can afford to wait it out and think it's worth the fight, it doesn't appear they have any 'trick up their sleeve' beyond the contract language we've been discussing. They claim that roof complexity changed and they cite section 2. about 'unforeseen conditions at the installation location'. Problem is they inspected mine a year ago before the agreement and nothing has changed since. They wrote the letter after I'd cancelled, so they could say it was closed on their end, but the 30-day response window the AGO typically gives had not closed. They did thank me (via the AGO, of course) for my understanding, so I guess that's something.

I also got an update from the MA AGO the other day stating Tesla considers my complaint resolved, since I went ahead and accepted the updated agreement after they included the credit for one powerwall. I'm still catching up on this thread after being on a 3 week road trip; not sure what others have experienced in this area. Never did hear back from the complaint filed with the SEIA.