Solved: Road Noise & Front Wind Noise

Through the last few months, I have been watching and reading up the various posts regarding the many ways many of you all have attempted, as well as the various kits available online, to reduce if not eliminate road noise and wind noise from the Model3. After reviewing all those posts and review of the kits, I figured that since none of you have been able to achieve that elusive goal, let alone even come close to reducing the noise, made me ask the question: What are we missing?

So as I kept driving my M3, I attempted to focus on finding those missing sources ie where is the noise emanating into the cabin from. Turns out they are the 4 corners of the cabin ie the A-Pillars and C-pillars. More specifically, the A-Pillars for wind noise and C-Pillars for road noise.

#1 - The solution for wind noise is the following - Z Weatherstrip down inside the leading edge of the front door, and foam block at the top triangle where the front fender, windshield and door meet.

Z-Weatherstrip

Foam at the junction

#2 - The solution for road noise is the following - 2" Fiber insulation behind the rear seat side panels that cover the rear wheel wells.

I hope this helps everyone who have been pursuing this goal. Thanks for all the contributions and many thanks to @XPsionic for his constant engagement and interest.

 

[tivoboy]

Imagine this being done at the factory - at scale, it might cost a few bucks per car with limited additional labor. Would make a huge improvement in the car a little cost. If necessary, raise the price of the car $10 or so to make up for it - nobody is going to refuse to buy the car over a $10 price difference, whereas I'm sure there are alot of people that decided not to buy because they thought (correctly) the car was too loud. If only, if only ...

You would be surprised at how much even the TINIEST cost gets removed across all the product management decisions..

I worked for a worldclass German OEM back in the 90’s and early 00’s.. the R&D and product group had a product they COULD add to the paint / clear coat that would remove all apparent surface SWIRLS after washing ongoing.. I thought it could be a game change and HUGE selling point and they could even charge 100’s of $/Euro for the feature, or not.

They couldn’t get it through product dev/management, because it added slight OVER A DOLLAR to the build costs for the paintshop.

 

[Infiniti Pi]

+1 to find this

 

[enemji]

You would be surprised at how much even the TINIEST cost gets removed across all the product management decisions..

I worked for a worldclass German OEM back in the 90’s and early 00’s.. the R&D and product group had a product they COULD add to the paint / clear coat that would remove all apparent surface SWIRLS after washing ongoing.. I thought it could be a game change and HUGE selling point and they could even charge 100’s of $/Euro for the feature, or not.

They couldn’t get it through product dev/management, because it added slight OVER A DOLLAR to the build costs for the paintshop.

Just like how they removed one slice of olive from the sandwich to make more profit

 

[enemji]

+1 to find this

 

[ICE5891]

I just want to add that the foam used in #1 is Siless liner 157 4mm thickness dense closed cell PE foam, 18 sq ft should be enough...

I ordered the ceramic fiber but I am not finding this Siless liner here in Europe in the German amazon (only in very large quantity). Does anyone know a equivalent available in Europe?

 

[Heckraiser]

I did the ceramic fiber insulation in the rear seat side bolsters and didn't notice any improvement Also broke a lot of plastic tabs, as usually happens whenever I take anything apart, lol.

Also, this stuff might not be fiberglass, but it feels just as nasty and itchy if you get any on your skin and leaves a lot of dust as you work with it.

 

[enemji]

I did the ceramic fiber insulation in the rear seat side bolsters and didn't notice any improvement Also broke a lot of plastic tabs, as usually happens whenever I take anything apart, lol.

Also, this stuff might not be fiberglass, but it feels just as nasty and itchy if you get any on your skin and leaves a lot of dust as you work with it.

What???? That is not expected at all. How much did you do? Needs to be at least 2 inches thick on the wheel well. Push it in as much as you can through the top of the wheel well on the inside.

This weekend I ended up pulling out the rear of my Mercedes trunk and this is what I see. Even Mercedes uses something similar for sound absorption.

 

[XPsionic]

What???? That is not expected at all. How much did you do? Needs to be at least 2 inches thick on the wheel well. Push it in as much as you can through the top of the wheel well on the inside.

You put 1" in the wheel well that you could reach with the side panels off, and another 1" layer cut to fit for the underside of the side panels?

 

[enemji]

You put 1" in the wheel well that you could reach with the side panels off, and another 1" layer cut to fit for the underside of the side panels?

That is what I did. Yes.

 

[ICE5891]

That is what I did. Yes.

I am confused. Did you open the side trunk liner and put the ceramic fiber like going through the process in the video posted few pages ago or did you added the ceramic fiber through the side panel on the back seat?

 

[enemji]

I am confused. Did you open the side trunk liner and put the ceramic fiber like going through the process in the video posted few pages ago or did you added the ceramic fiber through the side panel on the back seat?

As posted in the first post, I did it from the side seat panel. I removed the panel, layered all the wheel well sheet metal that I can see and reach with arm through the gap between the outside sheetmetal and the trunk liner.

 

[jkdman123]

Is it hard to get the side seat panels off?

 

[Heckraiser]

What???? That is not expected at all. How much did you do? Needs to be at least 2 inches thick on the wheel well. Push it in as much as you can through the top of the wheel well on the inside.

This weekend I ended up pulling out the rear of my Mercedes trunk and this is what I see. Even Mercedes uses something similar for sound absorption.

I just went back and re-did it based on your post. I did a layer on the wheel well arch, but put much more effort into stuffing the insulation into every nook and cranny and under the wiring looms and brackets and whatnot, then stuffed a bunch in the open cavity at the top near the rear deck, and a tight layer on the side bolster panels themselves. Two good layers, though complete coverage was impossible due to all the wires and crap in there. Some improvement over my first go-round (which yielded nothing to my ears), but still a little underwhelming result.

Since I was killing time in the garage, I also laid down Killmat under the rear deck metalwork (which is full of small holdes), lower trunk cavity and sealed off that random gaping hole in the speaker grille area. Overall the tone of the noise from the rear is lower (more bassy, less tinny) which is a slight improvement, but the volume doesn't seem any lower. I know Killmat doesn't really act as a sound barrier, but I've got lots of it laying around, so I thought what the hell.

What I'm really after is a way to get rid of the loud "kerTHUNK" that comes from the rear whenever I drive over a crack in the road. Makes the car feel so cheap and crappy. I'm going to do some more work on it, but it's hard not to get discouraged and go check out the inventory at Carmax, lol.

 

[enemji]

I just went back and re-did it based on your post. I did a layer on the wheel well arch, but put much more effort into stuffing the insulation into every nook and cranny and under the wiring looms and brackets and whatnot, then stuffed a bunch in the open cavity at the top near the rear deck, and a tight layer on the side bolster panels themselves. Two good layers, though complete coverage was impossible due to all the wires and crap in there. Some improvement over my first go-round (which yielded nothing to my ears), but still a little underwhelming result.

Since I was killing time in the garage, I also laid down Killmat under the rear deck metalwork (which is full of small holdes), lower trunk cavity and sealed off that random gaping hole in the speaker grille area. Overall the tone of the noise from the rear is lower (more bassy, less tinny) which is a slight improvement, but the volume doesn't seem any lower. I know Killmat doesn't really act as a sound barrier, but I've got lots of it laying around, so I thought what the hell.

What I'm really after is a way to get rid of the loud "kerTHUNK" that comes from the rear whenever I drive over a crack in the road. Makes the car feel so cheap and crappy. I'm going to do some more work on it, but it's hard not to get discouraged and go check out the inventory at Carmax, lol.

So you had not lined the trunk well? I have done that as discussed in the posts. It helps but the seat panels brought the 90% difference

 

[enemji]

I just went back and re-did it based on your post. I did a layer on the wheel well arch, but put much more effort into stuffing the insulation into every nook and cranny and under the wiring looms and brackets and whatnot, then stuffed a bunch in the open cavity at the top near the rear deck, and a tight layer on the side bolster panels themselves. Two good layers, though complete coverage was impossible due to all the wires and crap in there. Some improvement over my first go-round (which yielded nothing to my ears), but still a little underwhelming result.

Since I was killing time in the garage, I also laid down Killmat under the rear deck metalwork (which is full of small holdes), lower trunk cavity and sealed off that random gaping hole in the speaker grille area. Overall the tone of the noise from the rear is lower (more bassy, less tinny) which is a slight improvement, but the volume doesn't seem any lower. I know Killmat doesn't really act as a sound barrier, but I've got lots of it laying around, so I thought what the hell.

What I'm really after is a way to get rid of the loud "kerTHUNK" that comes from the rear whenever I drive over a crack in the road. Makes the car feel so cheap and crappy. I'm going to do some more work on it, but it's hard not to get discouraged and go check out the inventory at Carmax, lol.

what speed were you driving to test this?

 

[enemji]

Is it hard to get the side seat panels off?

Push up from the bottom and then from the top pull towards you

 

[enemji]

I ordered the ceramic fiber but I am not finding this Siless liner here in Europe in the German amazon (only in very large quantity). Does anyone know a equivalent available in Europe?

Alamor 300cm x 100cm 3mm Car Sound Insulation Closed Cell Foam https://amzn.eu/d/ay5foHW

 

[ICE5891]

Oops. I forgot to mention the highway speed

Smooth new concrete highway 80 mph - 66db

Rough worn concrete highway 80mph - 69db

Before any installation

Nokian friction winter tires.
Smooth highway concrete at 86km/h (53mph) - 67±2db


Lets see after I install the ceramic fiber, impractical to compare with your setup. Speed limit here is different and I am on winter tires.

 

[citivolus]

my passenger side had wind noise, tesla replaced the entire seal due to "deformed seal", your seal could be bad?

Thanks—my issue is that it comes and goes. I guess next time it comes back I will just schedule a service appointment.

 

[ICE5891]

Is it hard to get the side seat panels off?

I didnt do it yet but I found a video showing. At 5:50