Solved: Road Noise & Front Wind Noise

Through the last few months, I have been watching and reading up the various posts regarding the many ways many of you all have attempted, as well as the various kits available online, to reduce if not eliminate road noise and wind noise from the Model3. After reviewing all those posts and review of the kits, I figured that since none of you have been able to achieve that elusive goal, let alone even come close to reducing the noise, made me ask the question: What are we missing?

So as I kept driving my M3, I attempted to focus on finding those missing sources ie where is the noise emanating into the cabin from. Turns out they are the 4 corners of the cabin ie the A-Pillars and C-pillars. More specifically, the A-Pillars for wind noise and C-Pillars for road noise.

#1 - The solution for wind noise is the following - Z Weatherstrip down inside the leading edge of the front door, and foam block at the top triangle where the front fender, windshield and door meet.

Z-Weatherstrip

Foam at the junction

#2 - The solution for road noise is the following - 2" Fiber insulation behind the rear seat side panels that cover the rear wheel wells.

I hope this helps everyone who have been pursuing this goal. Thanks for all the contributions and many thanks to @XPsionic for his constant engagement and interest.

 

[Perscitus]

I don't have it handy, but its whatever the latest is getting installed on 3/Ys since 2022 or so.

You can replace both that rubber weather-stripping piece but more importantly, if the rubber isnt warped too much, you can just replace the A pillar applique triangle. Sits flush, no longer separates etc.

In the past old Model 3 users used to either glue it, hot glue or silicone, black caulk it in place... no need if you get the new pieces.

 

[jrcplus]

Thank you so much to @enemji and others for these wonderful threads on noise issues. I created on account on here just to be able to bookmark posts and say thanks

The road noise in my 2019 M3 LR has been bugging me ever since I got it (used). Tesla Service Center claims that there's nothing wrong with my car, which made me grumpy. Now I've decided to buy new summer tires (I'm eyeing Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 with "SoundComfort technology"), but I'm also really eager to try out the hacks mentioned here. Has anyone tried Rockwool yet? I can't find the ROCKWOOL SAFE 'n' SOUND product as mentioned in Model 3 Road Noise | Page 12 | Tesla Motors Club; the most similar thing I can find locally is https://www.hornbach.se/p/byggrulle-rockwool-med-vindskydd-50-mm/10658948/. @ICE5891 did you get your ceramic fiber from Amazon?

 

[ICE5891]

Thank you so much to @enemji and others for these wonderful threads on noise issues. I created on account on here just to be able to bookmark posts and say thanks

The road noise in my 2019 M3 LR has been bugging me ever since I got it (used). Tesla Service Center claims that there's nothing wrong with my car, which made me grumpy. Now I've decided to buy new summer tires (I'm eyeing Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 with "SoundComfort technology"), but I'm also really eager to try out the hacks mentioned here. Has anyone tried Rockwool yet? I can't find the ROCKWOOL SAFE 'n' SOUND product as mentioned in Model 3 Road Noise | Page 12 | Tesla Motors Club; the most similar thing I can find locally is https://www.hornbach.se/p/byggrulle-rockwool-med-vindskydd-50-mm/10658948/. @ICE5891 did you get your ceramic fiber from Amazon?

Yes ceramic fiber I got from Amazon DE.

I have now ordered some materials from this brand STP to do a complete trunk sound treatment. They have a good range of different materials, I took the ressonance dumper, a insulation foam and the heavy layer to put on the top.

https://standartplast.com/

I fond all on a finnish online shop, you might find something also in Sweden.

 

[enemji]

Thank you so much to @enemji and others for these wonderful threads on noise issues. I created on account on here just to be able to bookmark posts and say thanks

The road noise in my 2019 M3 LR has been bugging me ever since I got it (used). Tesla Service Center claims that there's nothing wrong with my car, which made me grumpy. Now I've decided to buy new summer tires (I'm eyeing Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 with "SoundComfort technology"), but I'm also really eager to try out the hacks mentioned here. Has anyone tried Rockwool yet? I can't find the ROCKWOOL SAFE 'n' SOUND product as mentioned in Model 3 Road Noise | Page 12 | Tesla Motors Club; the most similar thing I can find locally is https://www.hornbach.se/p/byggrulle-rockwool-med-vindskydd-50-mm/10658948/. @ICE5891 did you get your ceramic fiber from Amazon?

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I did get the ceramic fiber from Amazon. Rockwool is more expensive and longer time to deliver and I was itching to try out my hack over a weekend. That said, I did do a sound test by holding up the ceramic fiber mat against my home theater speakers that were playing road noise and they passed with flying colors.

 

[enemji]

Another tidbit I came across: the rear wheel well and trunk is made of aluminum. Aluminum has a nrc of 0.05. The fiber mat has a nrc of 0.92.

Tesla Model 3 body in white — Pall Kornmayer

www.pallkornmayer.com

 

[XPsionic]

Just drove my family's BMW 335xi, the Model 3 used to feel like it's a bit louder than the BMW at 65mph or so, now after the foam and insulation, they feel more or less the same, or maybe very slightly quieter in the Model 3.

Overall, good enough.

 

[enemji]

Just drove my family's BMW 335xi, the Model 3 used to feel like it's a bit louder than the BMW at 65mph or so, now after the foam and insulation, they feel more or less the same, or maybe very slightly quieter in the Model 3.

Overall, good enough.

Hahaha that is a good reference. But if I recall correctly the BMW is setup slightly softer than a model 3

 

[fernie]

@enemji Firstly, thank you for all this documenting!

I got a M3 2023 19” stock tires (which seems noisy to me ) and my problem is mostly this wind whistling noise when I’m above 40mph (or a windy day) and it only goes away when it’s raining.

1) The A pillar foam work is exactly so that issue can be fixed?

2) Could that whistle noise be coming from the gap between the fender and the A pillar/windshield (behind the side mirrors)? If so, could I just add some foam of some kind in between that gap instead of doing the fix for question #1?

3) What is the Z rubber trying to fix? Is it just road noise in general? Did you see a big improvement there?

Thank you!

 

[enemji]

@enemji

1) The A pillar foam work is exactly so that issue can be fixed?

I did not understand the question.

2) Could that whistle noise be coming from the gap between the fender and the A pillar/windshield (behind the side mirrors)? If so, could I just add some foam of some kind in between that gap instead of doing the fix for question #1?

Sure but in both my M3s, the triangle foam worked the best. Another cause I have seen is a gap between the lower edge of the windshield and the weatherstripping below the wiper.

3) What is the Z rubber trying to fix? Is it just road noise in general? Did you see a big improvement there?

Thank you!

The Z stripping is essentially preventing buffeting wind within the gap of the A-pillar and door panels. That is something that even Mercedes does and even found in Tesla Model-S.

 

[fernie]

I did not understand the question.

Thank you for the replies! I just meant to ask whether inserting the foam in the A-pillar location that you highlighted is supposed to fix the whistling issue I'm seeing going above 40mpg or is it trying to fix road noise?

 

[jrcplus]

I've now stuffed 2 lb of ceramic fiber behind both rear seat side bolsters. This is in addition to a cheap soundproofing mat inside the trunk well and under the trunk liner, and with third-party door and roof seals.

Behind the right side bolster, there was already a large grey foam block and some white foam inside (blue arrows). I shoved as much ceramic fiber in deep as I could (red arrows) and covered the rest.

It's hard to get consistent measurements under comparable conditions, so below is a rough shot. I guess it sounds less harsh? Maybe a little more quiet in the rear too? A lot of the noise still seems to come from the under the vehicle. Putting my heavy winter coat in the frunk also seemed to help a little. I will try some sound dampening plastic foam in the frunk and trunk well this weekend.

I'm still getting ~72 dB at 80 km/h (50 mph) which is more than other people report, for some reason
I'm hoping the new tires I ordered will be worth it.
Any other suggestions welcome!

 

[XPsionic]

From your results I see a difference for 4000hz+, but where the majority of the noise is, maybe a tiny little bit of difference in the 1-3db range.

Seems about right, I don't really feel like the car's any quieter, but the balance of the noise seem to have shifted forwards in the cabin a bit. The rest of the noise seem to come from every direction, floor, doors, side glass...

For RWD/SR+ Owners with no rear subwoofer, I think adding some non ceramic foam (you don't want that kind of fibre exposed to the trunk) and Dynamat type damping material on the underside of the rear deck would be helpful, that's a fairly large surface that would resonate.

If you've got access to a jack and can take the front wheel lining off, the wheel well area in the front would be a good place to tackle as well.

 

[enemji]

I've now stuffed 2 lb of ceramic fiber behind both rear seat side bolsters. This is in addition to a cheap soundproofing mat inside the trunk well and under the trunk liner, and with third-party door and roof seals.

Behind the right side bolster, there was already a large grey foam block and some white foam inside (blue arrows). I shoved as much ceramic fiber in deep as I could (red arrows) and covered the rest.
View attachment 925727

It's hard to get consistent measurements under comparable conditions, so below is a rough shot. I guess it sounds less harsh? Maybe a little more quiet in the rear too? A lot of the noise still seems to come from the under the vehicle. Putting my heavy winter coat in the frunk also seemed to help a little. I will try some sound dampening plastic foam in the frunk and trunk well this weekend.
View attachment 925723View attachment 925722

View attachment 925725View attachment 925724

I'm still getting ~72 dB at 80 km/h (50 mph) which is more than other people report, for some reason
I'm hoping the new tires I ordered will be worth it.
Any other suggestions welcome!

Exactly my feelings. This takes care of the H in the NVH. you can still hear the car, but it is no longer "harsh".

Also, yes. The tires make a huge difference. a 94V tire is definitely more compliant than the 98 and higher from my experience due to the sidewall stiffness.

72DB at 50mph is quite high. I get around 65db at that speed.

 

[XPsionic]

Rode in the back of a 2022 Model 3 loaner today, most of the road noise is concentrated by the area next to the rear triangular glass, it's very loud directly behind the rear headrest area by the window. There's also a general hum from the rear trunk deck. I'll look into putting more foam/insulation in those areas in my own car.

I have to say, the car is quite LOUD from the rear seats. In my own 2021 Model 3 with additional insulation, and with me sitting at the front, it feels quite a lot more calm.

 

[ICE5891]

Rode in the back of a 2022 Model 3 loaner today, most of the road noise is concentrated by the area next to the rear triangular glass area, it's very loud directly behind the rear headrest area by the window. There's also a general hum from the rear trunk deck. I'll look into putting more foam/insulation in those areas in my own car.

I have to say, the car is quite LOUD from the rear seats. In my own 2021 Model 3 with additional insulation, and with me sitting at the front, it feels quite a lot more calm.

This outer portion of the wheel arch is probably one of the problems and very hard to get access to, it is an empty area and just below the rear triangle that you mentioned. I've received now all the material, tomorrow I will see what I can do in that area also.

But because the difficult access maybe the only real solution is to remove the wheels and do it from outside having it installed between the metal and the liner.

 

[XPsionic]

This outer portion of the wheel arch is probably one of the problems and very hard to get access to. I've received now all the material, tomorrow I will see what I can do in that area also.

But because the difficult access maybe the only real solution is to remove the wheels and do it from outside having it installed between the metal and the liner.

View attachment 927328

Yeah, I even leaned down to listen closer to the seat level, but by far the loudest road noise was at head level right behind the headrest.

 

[enemji]

Rode in the back of a 2022 Model 3 loaner today, most of the road noise is concentrated by the area next to the rear triangular glass, it's very loud directly behind the rear headrest area by the window. There's also a general hum from the rear trunk deck. I'll look into putting more foam/insulation in those areas in my own car.

I have to say, the car is quite LOUD from the rear seats. In my own 2021 Model 3 with additional insulation, and with me sitting at the front, it feels quite a lot more calm.

Good to know that my ears were not deceiving me. That is why I went down looking behind those bolsters

 

[enemji]

This outer portion of the wheel arch is probably one of the problems and very hard to get access to, it is an empty area and just below the rear triangle that you mentioned. I've received now all the material, tomorrow I will see what I can do in that area also.

But because the difficult access maybe the only real solution is to remove the wheels and do it from outside having it installed between the metal and the liner.

View attachment 927328

You will be able to push the ceramic foam there if you remove the trunk panels. I was able to do it and that helped majorly

 

[Heckraiser]

This outer portion of the wheel arch is probably one of the problems and very hard to get access to, it is an empty area and just below the rear triangle that you mentioned. I've received now all the material, tomorrow I will see what I can do in that area also.

But because the difficult access maybe the only real solution is to remove the wheels and do it from outside having it installed between the metal and the liner.

View attachment 927328

Funny you mention this. I just did my "stage 2" noise reduction today

1) I lined all parts of the trunk that I could readily access with Killmat. The Killmat made a really big difference on tapping on the quarter panel noise level--not that that's a realistic metric for actual road noise, but it makes the car feel less crappy to me.
2) I removed 1 layer of white ceramic insulation I had previously installed as recommended by the OP in the rear side bolster area, and instead lined the front portion of the wheel arch behind the side bolsters with a little Killmat and then 2 layers of Siless closed cell foam.
3) I lined everywhere I could in the trunk with Siless---it was pretty much impossible to get good coverage in that crevice you point out in the photo. You can reach your arm back there if you kneel in the sub-trunk and wedge yourself back there, but you have to turn your head the other way to get your arm down the tunnel, good luck getting complete coverage! I just did the best I could.
4) I used the ceramic insulation removed from the side bolsters and shoved it down that crevice, and damn if it didn't fill in all the nooks and crannies nicely! I also felt better about having it someplace where it wont shed dust.
5) Bought a couple 72x80 moving blankets from Harbor Freight and wadded them up to fill the remaining crevice space. I really stuffed it in there. A full blanket fits on the passenger side easy (more than one blanket really). I don't have a subwoofer back there. And I cut about 1/3 off a blanket to shove in the drivers side. The drivers side is smaller due to the charging components. The extra 1/3 of a blanket went in the passenger side.

I ran out of Siless, so I have 2 layers on the forward part of the rear wheel arches, one layer (not complete coverage) here and there throughout the rest of the trunk and various brackets and panels and whanot. I stuffed extra into any gaps where the metalwork of the trunk is welded together with an opening/gap. The sub-trunk is lined fully with Killmat, but just one sheet of Siless on the bottom panel. Sub-trunk is easy to remove if I feel like adding more.

End result is a big improvement over the white side bolster ceramic stuff outlined in the OP (which to my ears, didn't really do anything). The ker-THUNK from the rear suspension is a little more muted and I can definitely notice more road noise coming from the front of the vehicle, which is probably the best indication that the rear work was at least semi-effective. Worth the hours stuffing myself into a trunk and bending my stiff old body into a pretzel? Probably not. But the noise has really been driving me nuts so I felt I had no choice


This is the black hole in question.

 

[alset3000]

I have been battling driver's window noise on my 2022 M3 for months now. The window sounded cracked at any speed over 40 MPH. In fact, cracking the window at that speed made no difference in the sound. A windy day would push air through the seal.

I went to Tesla service 4 times for "adjustments" to the window seal which would sound ok for a while and then revert back. I noticed leaving the windows down (vent) would make the sealing worse afterwards. I'm guessing the seal had some resiliency (like a spring) and would just go back to not sealing. Placing some weather stripping behind the lip of the seal on the b-pillar side definitely helped.

I went to a different Tesla service center than the previous visits to fix something service center 1 broke. I also had service center 2 replace (not adjust) the driver's seal. So far, my noise is greatly reduced with the new seal. It only took 5 trips to Tesla service to fix it.

Keep up the good work on the end-user side. Tesla is not interested in fixing these design flaws.