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Something interesting happened with my Service Loaner and Autopilot

BPeter

Member
Feb 2, 2019
547
541
Minnesota
I recently had an AP1 loaner (not the first time) and I agree. AP1 is doesn't wiggle the wheel AT ALL. I wouldn't say AP2 ping-pongs but compared to AP1 it does seem to be constantly adjusting the direction ever so slightly back and forth all the time that makes it feel worse.
 

dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
675
616
Northeast USA
Having driven both, I used to say (and have said here) that AP1 was more confident and felt more in control. That has changed with software updates and now AP3 w/FSD (can't speak for AP2 as I never used it) is much improved and has in my opinion far surpassed AP1.

If the OP is using AP2 w/o FSD, I would say that AP1 would probably be a little more sure-footed. I think meaningful development of AP2 stopped pretty much as soon as AP2.5 became available.
 

TonikQL

Member
Nov 19, 2020
27
-1
USA
Having driven both, I used to say (and have said here) that AP1 was more confident and felt more in control. That has changed with software updates and now AP3 w/FSD (can't speak for AP2 as I never used it) is much improved and has in my opinion far surpassed AP1.

If the OP is using AP2 w/o FSD, I would say that AP1 would probably be a little more sure-footed. I think meaningful development of AP2 stopped pretty much as soon as AP2.5 became available.

Yes my 2016 is AP2 w/o FSD. The loaner's AP1 feels far more confident and I would actually use Autopilot with AP1. AP2 scares me a little because it rides on top of the yellow line so I dont tend to use it. Ive already tried recalibrating the cameras but it doesnt help - my AP2 wants to hit other cars with my side view mirror because I guess Tesla feels that's normal behavior...... o_O
 

⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

Active Member
Jul 15, 2016
2,802
4,609
Pacific Northwest
But the ping-ponging OP is referring to, is long gone in AP2. AP2 is just as solid on lane keeping and in fact does a good job in faint lane lines too, which AP1 constantly struggles. I think in every metric AP2 has surpassed AP1. And I say this after having driven both AP1 and AP2 extensively.

I suspect something is amiss in OP's hardware.

[I forgot about the fact that AP1 does lane changes.. its been 4 years]
He did say it automatically changes lanes which AP2 does in Navigate on Autopilot(without touching the turn signal), so it’s a little confusing.
it even auto lane changed (something mine doesn't do).

My 2016 with AP2 hasn’t ping ponged in its lane for years. It certainly doesn’t ride the yellow line or even come close to hitting anything with the side mirrors. There’s something wrong with your car. I had an AP1 loaner a couple of weeks ago while I was having the FSD computer installed. The only thing I noticed with AP1 was that it had worse phantom braking issues than my AP2 car.
Is my AP just defective or whats going on with it?
Yes, it does sound defective. My AP2 has been working pretty awesome for a couple years now.
 

blitzpa

Member
Jun 15, 2019
75
63
PA
I agree. I recently got a P85D with AP1 and it's much smoother on Autopilot than my XP100D with AP2.5 and EAP. Using the turn signal for lane changes is more confident than EAP-based changes, no phantom braking, and better lane keeping lines. I was initially disappointed that my S was stuck on AP1 but after using it a while I love how rock solid it is on the highway. My use case for AP is primarily highway driving. I'm really not that interested in nerve-racking FSD software trying to understand and navigate through complex intersections where I have to be alert anyways and driver behavior will always be unpredictable.
 

⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

Active Member
Jul 15, 2016
2,802
4,609
Pacific Northwest
I agree. I recently got a P85D with AP1 and it's much smoother on Autopilot than my XP100D with AP2.5 and EAP. Using the turn signal for lane changes is more confident than EAP-based changes, no phantom braking, and better lane keeping lines. I was initially disappointed that my S was stuck on AP1 but after using it a while I love how rock solid it is on the highway. My use case for AP is primarily highway driving. I'm really not that interested in nerve-racking FSD software trying to understand and navigate through complex intersections where I have to be alert anyways and driver behavior will always be unpredictable.
It's strange how different our experiences are. I wonder what variables affect this.
 

blitzpa

Member
Jun 15, 2019
75
63
PA
It's strange how different our experiences are. I wonder what variables affect this.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting AP1 to outperform a newer AP2.5 car. I think there are many variables including tire condition, road condition, cameras, suspension, alignment, eMMC, etc. I'm thinking the MCU2/AP3 upgrade will help a lot on the X since it seems to be slower at processing everything than the S with AP1. :confused:
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,323
3,276
Colorado, USA
The only thing I noticed with AP1 was that it had worse phantom braking issues than my AP2 car.

Define "phantom braking" because I've logged tens of thousands of miles w/AP1 engaged (I use it everywhere... city and highway all over the country on all of road trips) on many different AP1 cars. Never once have I personally witnessed an AP1 car w/Autopilot engaged phantom brake. I've also never read of it from others on this or other forums other than this post outside of like two instances total and I suspect the variables including the operator in these super rare occurrences. Ether you experienced something remarkably rare (and not something I would use to gauge the two versions against each other) or we share a different definition of what "phantom braking" means.
 

⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

Active Member
Jul 15, 2016
2,802
4,609
Pacific Northwest
Define "phantom braking" because I've logged tens of thousands of miles w/AP1 engaged (I use it everywhere... city and highway all over the country on all of road trips) on many different AP1 cars. Never once have I personally witnessed an AP1 car w/Autopilot engaged phantom brake. I've also never read of it from others on this or other forums other than this post outside of like two instances total and I suspect the variables including the operator in these super rare occurrences. Ether you experienced something remarkably rare (and not something I would use to gauge the two versions against each other) or we share a different definition of what "phantom braking" means.
What I experienced was sudden braking when there was no reason to brake. Not like a slamming on the brakes to come to a complete sudden stop, but an abrupt reduction of speed. Maybe it would have come to a complete stop if I hadn't tapped the accelerator to counter the braking. I was driving through Lake Oswego at 32 miles an hour with TACC engaged, when it occurred. I remember thinking, oh so AP1 does this too. It actually hit the brakes harder than when my AP2 car phantom brakes. Which it doesn't do very often or aggressively.

This is from the loaner car I was driving:
0199F635-A52D-4417-8208-F29D86F2D828.jpeg
 

azmodls

Member
Dec 5, 2016
127
97
Arizona
Yes my 2016 is AP2 w/o FSD. The loaner's AP1 feels far more confident and I would actually use Autopilot with AP1. AP2 scares me a little because it rides on top of the yellow line so I dont tend to use it. Ive already tried recalibrating the cameras but it doesnt help - my AP2 wants to hit other cars with my side view mirror because I guess Tesla feels that's normal behavior...... o_O
I had a 2016 S 75D w/ AP2 until Oct 2019 (original owner), and it never had the AP problems you described. I suggest scheduling a service appointment to have your cameras checked. I had EAP which included auto lane change (manual signal and NOA).
 

rsg123

Member
Jan 1, 2018
512
229
Sacramento
I have AP1 and mine does both lane changes and auto lane changes.

If your car does auto lane changes then you certainly don’t have AP1.

edit: it looks like you have a P85D from your profile so if that’s the car you are talking about, I’d like more information about your auto lane changing AP1 unicorn!
 
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Footer

Member
May 5, 2014
296
155
The Villages, Florida
Seems to be a semantics problem here. Cars manufactured between end of September 2014 and end of October 2016, roughly 55,000 to 175,000 VIN, have a single camera Mobile-Eye with AP1. It does a semi-automatic lane change. Move the turn signal and the car steers itself into the adjacent lane. FSD has fully automatic lane change. Driver doesn't have to do anything. If you're following a BP it will change lanes on its own. No AP1 car can do that.

My AP1 car used to brake when passing cars parked on the shoulder. It no longer does that. Maybe twice it braked unexpectedly for no reason. My car has always had calibration issues with the camera and radar and it probably was related to that. On a 2 day road trip AP works fine for the first half day, maybe even the whole day, but then after leaving a supercharger it no longer recognizes vehicles and I lose both autosteer and TACC for the rest of the trip. After a couple days rest it works fine again and continues to work fine until a long road trip.

Service does not have a good answer.
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,182
672
Cary, NC
I have a May 2015 build. What I will say is how sad it is that we still have a AP1 v AP2 v AP3 debate.
What is sad is how slow the progression has been. That in some ways, AP1 is still better. I have to say that I never expected such poor progress back in 2015. And yet Elon keeps promising things ... and some people keep believing it....

I never ping-pong. I think I had one phantom braking event a few years ago. The nag frequency really limits the usefulness and I doubt I would pay for it again. I am one of those people who can keep hands on wheel but still get nags. I wonder how much a cabin facing camera would have cost? Or some other detection system.
 

Babaron

Member
Jan 24, 2017
233
148
SW Ohio and west central FL
Just for the record, I drive both an AP1 Dec.2014 build MS and an AP3 Mar. 2019 build MS.

IMO, AP3 is capable of many more things than AP1,certainly. But, AP1 still does a better, less stressful job for straight highway cruising for 1 simple reason:

NO PHANTOM BRAKING!!!! Never, not once, ever, in 140,000 + miles.

AP3? Well, not very often but often enough that I hesitate to use it. I REALLY REALLY wish they would fix that.
 

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