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SpaceX Falcon 9 FT launch - JCSAT 16 - SLC-40

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Why not then use the stage to deliver low cost bulk goods to orbit for later use?

Yup. That's a pretty freakin' brilliant concept too. Theoretically you launch less and less important payloads (like water or raw materials) until you finally fail a launcher. (Obviously going THAT far is not okay, but you get the point) That concept goes hand in hand with a current push in the industry to develop [automated] manufacturing in space: A significant amount of the work that goes into design/build/test of a spacecraft is launch environment survival...and so a significant amount of the cost goes toward that necessity. If you could, say, print your structure or circuit cards or wire harnesses in space, you just need to launch dumb raw material for those components. You also no longer need to design those components to survive a launch environment, so you can better optimize them for the mission at hand. You're also much less concerned about mass/volume, so you can deprioritize those aspects of a design trade. Its all good for reliability AND cost.

You could also aggregate a number of low cost spacecraft in a 'less reliable' launch as well, and that can really be a massive catalyst in lowering the cost of space. The biggest downward spiral of the space industry is the $$$ involved. More $$$ means more risk which means more mitigation/insurance, which means more $$$, and so on... Rockets are cool and all, but they're just an expensive way to travel. The real mission is the thing that's getting put into space, and right now the price of the rockets are still high enough that they're indirectly driving the price of the mission hardware. Elon is doing well to bust out of that circular reference and step function the cost of getting to space; some of us are doing our part to step function the cost of the space missions themselves. ;) The hard part about the later is most manufacturers are public companies where profit margin is a legitimate requirement. Elon is smart enough to keep profit motives out of his shop, and lucky enough (because he's smart enough) to have deep coffers backing him up. In the end though, its going to be an upward spiral where lower cost on either side drives the total cost down.

Marginally Related Soapbox:
There's a legacy concept from Gemini that has perpetuated itself through the space industry at large, where failure is not an option. While understandable for manned missions, that's the reason why you hear of billion dollar DOD/JPL spacecraft that take a decade to build and eventually launch outdated technology. One can quite literally build the exact same spacecraft with the exact same performance, in half the time for half the price, by shaving just a bit out of the reliability budget. One can then build a second spacecraft with the other half of the money, with better performance (due to technology progress), and launch it when the original spacecraft would have launched. One then ends up with two spacecraft on orbit, with collectively more than twice the performance of the baseline, AND collectively similar if not better reliability ('strength in numbers', so to speak). Not to mention that the more you design/build/test the more you hone your concepts/processes/etc., so the more reliable your product becomes.

The commercial market is coming around to the idea of reduced part/component reliability driving reduced costs, but there's still so much money involved (~$200-300M+ for a big GEOcomm and launcher) that there's plenty of hesitation when push comes to shove. Heritage is still a really strong concept. The government (DOD and NASA) are barely opening their eyes to the idea of lower cost for lower reliability, but nobody of any importance is ready to risk taxpayer money ( = their job) on a program that doesn't fully CYA themselves with a billion dotted I's and a billion crossed T's. Its going to be on the commercial industry (propped up significantly by a low cost SpaceX) to basically shame the gub'ment into getting on board.
 
My "conspiracy" (which isn't really a conspiracy) is they aren't showing the moment of landing live by choice, even if later they do release video of the landings. It is well within their ability to show crystal clear live 4K video of the first stage landings (or failing to land) but they for whatever reason aren't. Perhaps because they just don't care, or perhaps because they want to be sure what they release is not going to give away any trade secrets. I have no idea. I just find it really funny that the most advanced privately financed space program that employs some of the smartest minds on the planet have decided to not show the moment of touchdown live for whatever reason.
Yes they could use a plane as was done for the early attempts but now that landings are becoming routine if I were Elon I would say don't spend the money on a plane just to guarantee live video of the landing from a distance, since there are cameras on the ASDS that capture the landing and the video is released later.

It is entirely plausible to me that sometimes the live feed satellite uplink is lost because there is a huge rocket with an engine firing less than 100 yards away. Note that sometimes an ASDS landing has been shown live, sometimes the video signal is distorted but not completely interrupted, and sometimes it just drops out for a few seconds, as it did yesterday.

You are looking for intentional actions where there likely is no such intent.
 
Yes they could use a plane as was done for the early attempts but now that landings are becoming routine if I were Elon I would say don't spend the money on a plane just to guarantee live video of the landing from a distance, since there are cameras on the ASDS that capture the landing and the video is released later.

It is entirely plausible to me that sometimes the live feed satellite uplink is lost because there is a huge rocket with an engine firing less than 100 yards away. Note that sometimes an ASDS landing has been shown live, sometimes the video signal is distorted but not completely interrupted, and sometimes it just drops out for a few seconds, as it did yesterday.

You are looking for intentional actions where there likely is no such intent.

First these landings are far from routine. They've done this 13 or 14 times and just barely passed the 50% success rate. Routine is when you don't even think about what you are doing, it just happens.
And anyway, I think you've missed my point. While I mentioned that they don't show the landings, I wasn't inferring some nefarious plot to not show them. They just have a system that's "good enough for them" and they choose to stick with it. They could (as I said) show them perfectly each time, but they don't. Why they don't is a good question as they clearly want to show off what they are doing since most of the time they release the video after the fact. I'm merely suggesting that they have decided to show what they show.
As a result of their decisions we (including competitors) don't get to see the landings live.
 
The stage landings are becoming to feel routine now that they have had multiple successes in a row, on land and on sea. Do they still impress me? Of course, they are thrilling! But now I am expecting success, whereas 10 months ago I was expecting failure.

I want to see the landings live as much as anyone, I think, but I see no reason why SpaceX should place a higher priority on my entertainment needs than they currently are. Yes, they have decided to "show what they show". I'm happy they do that. I am particularly enjoying the landing videos using the camera mounted on the side of the stage looking down!
 
And anyway, I think you've missed my point. While I mentioned that they don't show the landings, I wasn't inferring some nefarious plot to not show them. They just have a system that's "good enough for them" and they choose to stick with it.
I agree with the viewpoint you've reached, though I don't think that's where you started:
I'm starting to believe that the landing video feed is purposely cut just before touchdown at this point. Probably to help maintain competitive advantage or save face if something does go wrong.
Anyway, agreed. This is a bonus thing, and they probably don't spend a ton of resources making sure the stream is solid.
 
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It's really sad that whenever I look for YouTube space videos for my kids - things like the SpaceX landings, Mars rovers, Apollo missions - the site is absolutely full of moon hoaxers and other such crap. I expect it's these kinds of morons.

Just saw this Youtube video debunking some points moon hoaxers may use:


In brief: It's the camera!
 
Vibration upsetting the alignment of the satellite antenna is completely plausible. Conspiracy theories are not required.
No conspiracy, that's just a fact. The landing shakes the sh*t out of OCISLY. I was just saying if they wanted to, they could make it stream clear as day but they don't. That's why I think they cut it out on purpose, because they don't fix the easily solvable problem of the live feed. It cuts out every time (because of the shaking), they know it will, and they don't care. It works for them because if it fails it's not on screen, but if it succeeds it comes back after a few moments.
 
I think they cut it out on purpose, because they don't fix the easily solvable problem of the live feed.
So you are an expert with real life professional experience in all aspects of the technology involved in uploading a live video data stream to a satellite when the video camera is mounted on a structure that is vibrating because a 68 meter tall rocket with an engine blasting is decelerating from a very high rate of speed to zero kmh within 200 feet of the camera?

I am not being sarcastic but I am incredulous. I am seriously asking what your credentials are that allow you to so confidently make the statement that the scenario described above is an "easily solvable problem".
 
First these landings are far from routine. They've done this 13 or 14 times and just barely passed the 50% success rate. Routine is when you don't even think about what you are doing, it just happens.

Including the successful first stage landing attempt last December, SpaceX has gone 6 for 9 on the landings. I remember sometime after the first landing Elon saying he expected about a 70% success rate this year. So far, pretty accurate and also a decent batting average! Should only keep improving.

Routine is a tough cookie. I'm guilty of using that word and it probably isn't the best term to use. In the early eighties there was lots of talk about the Space Shuttle program having a few test flights and thereafter would become operational and likely routine. After the inflight breakup of Columbia I don't think shuttle reliability was ever considered to be any better than 99%. (Lucky to meet Jerry Ross once who flew a record seven shuttle missions. Beyond brave!) Reflecting back, I don't think the shuttle ever escaped the moniker "experimental".

Tough to predict, but the earliest that any spaceflight related endeavors are considered routine might not be until later this century.
 
So you are an expert with real life professional experience in all aspects of the technology involved in uploading a live video data stream to a satellite when the video camera is mounted on a structure that is vibrating because a 68 meter tall rocket with an engine blasting is decelerating from a very high rate of speed to zero kmh within 200 feet of the camera?

I am not being sarcastic but I am incredulous. I am seriously asking what your credentials are that allow you to so confidently make the statement that the scenario described above is an "easily solvable problem".


Well I work in television engineering and deal with live remotes all the time. The simple solution is use a traditional non-directional transmitter on OCISLY who's signal is picked up by a nearby vessel (one of the chase ships perhaps). This chase ship then uses it's much more stable satellite link to relay the video from OCISLY up to the bird, which in turn relays it back to the world. (/edit They are far enough out at sea that they can use high power transmitters without needing FCC approval)
What they have seems to work for them though, so we get what we get. As someone mentioned above, they have a ton of camera's recording live for their own purposes, so they aren't missing anything, just us.

Let's end this with: SpaceX is doing incredible things, truly redefining modern spaceflight.
 
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I am not being sarcastic but I am incredulous. I am seriously asking what your credentials are that allow you to so confidently make the statement that the scenario described above is an "easily solvable problem".

I would add without increasing costs in a noticeable way. I can envision solutions to the problem. I can't envision them without spending truckloads of money that SpaceX seems unwilling to spend.
 
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Let's end this with: SpaceX is doing incredible things, truly redefining modern spaceflight.
Fair enough. Thanks for responding to my question. We agree that SpaceX is doing amazing things and changing the course of human history, in my opinion in a fundamental way that may well end up being remembered and appreciated for millennia.
 
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I'm starting to believe that the landing video feed is purposely cut just before touchdown at this point. Probably to help maintain competitive advantage or save face if something does go wrong. I get that the drone ship loses it's satellite link when the booster is landing, but if they really wanted to show us they could either A: Use a helicopter/plane shot like they did back in April, or B: Have another drone ship nearby that acts as the satellite link and use normal radios to relay the video feed of OCISLY to the second satellite ship.

Not a huge deal really, but it's kind of frustrating watching the sky glow all fiery red and then a freeze frame, and then magically the booster is sitting on the ship. I get why the flat earth/SpaceX "Truthers" are making all those ridiculous claims.

Not likely when Elon is the first guy to tweet out a video of an explosive RUD...
 
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Well I work in television engineering and deal with live remotes all the time. The simple solution is use a traditional non-directional transmitter on OCISLY who's signal is picked up by a nearby vessel (one of the chase ships perhaps). This chase ship then uses it's much more stable satellite link to relay the video from OCISLY up to the bird, which in turn relays it back to the world. (/edit They are far enough out at sea that they can use high power transmitters without needing FCC approval)
What they have seems to work for them though, so we get what we get. As someone mentioned above, they have a ton of camera's recording live for their own purposes, so they aren't missing anything, just us.

Let's end this with: SpaceX is doing incredible things, truly redefining modern spaceflight.


That's similar to what I was thinking. If OCISLY satellite dish can't take the vibrations, perhaps they can put the satellite dish on the support ship which is a bit farther away and use a relatively short range omni-directional signal between ships. Or put a good camera on the support ship and use that more "zoomed out" camera to see the rocket coming in and only switch back to the OCISLY camera view once it has landed and vibrations have settled down.
 
That's similar to what I was thinking. If OCISLY satellite dish can't take the vibrations, perhaps they can put the satellite dish on the support ship which is a bit farther away and use a relatively short range omni-directional signal between ships. Or put a good camera on the support ship and use that more "zoomed out" camera to see the rocket coming in and only switch back to the OCISLY camera view once it has landed and vibrations have settled down.
Honestly, I'd love to see a wider view of the landing, anyway. With the OCISLY camera you can't even see the entire rocket, let alone its approach.