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SpaceX Launch/Satellite Contracts

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5 to ULA and 3 to SpaceX? Rational technical reasons or favoritism?
Favoritism. Even though it isn't supposed to happen, military procurement people go to work at Boeing or Lockheed after getting out. On a less cynical note, these contracts are begun years ahead of when they are finalized. So SpaceX wasn't quite the powerhouse superstar a few years back compared to what they are now. The next contract will probably be 60% SpaceX and 40% ULA next time. If you notice, the launches are for the Vulcan - not the Atlas. So ULA better have Vulcan ready or SpaceX will get them.
 
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Favoritism. Even though it isn't supposed to happen, military procurement people go to work at Boeing or Lockheed after getting out. On a less cynical note, these contracts are begun years ahead of when they are finalized. So SpaceX wasn't quite the powerhouse superstar a few years back compared to what they are now. The next contract will probably be 60% SpaceX and 40% ULA next time. If you notice, the launches are for the Vulcan - not the Atlas. So ULA better have Vulcan ready or SpaceX will get them.
So the military is awarding contracts to a brand new, unproven rocket with zero flights? Huh.
 
They are assuming that ULA knows what they are doing. But yes. No question it isn't a fair playing field. Just wait until Super Heavy/Starship changes the whole game....
Yeah, well, that's what we said about Falcon 9 reusability. SpaceX literally had to invent a new business to take full advantage of Falcon 9's capabilities since the rest of the world, including our own government, would rather waste money on their jobs programs and corruption than do the right thing.
 
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It’s worth noting that, per the linked article, last time The Man paid $140M per launch to ULA and $158M per launch to SpaceX…

There’s a lot that goes into these kinds of contracts. “Favoritism” is an easy but far from comprehensive differentiator.
 
It’s worth noting that, per the linked article, last time The Man paid $140M per launch to ULA and $158M per launch to SpaceX…

There’s a lot that goes into these kinds of contracts. “Favoritism” is an easy but far from comprehensive differentiator.
It that the same time The Man paid for a brand new vertical integration facility for SpaceX since their payloads require it?
vs ULA which already has one.
 
It that the same time The Man paid for a brand new vertical integration facility for SpaceX since their payloads require it?
vs ULA which already has one.

Hard to say. There's past mention of $316M for a FH launch + the vertical upgrades (and also the long fairing and some VAFB upgrades) which, if fully overlapped with the 2020/21 award, would only leave $160M for two Falcon launches, which seems a bit low. Its also hard to say if any of those 2020/21 awards were for a heavy (it would be USSF-44 if anything); it seems like ~$150M is the historical rate for state funded heavies.

Anyway, while certainly Astrotech (long before ULA) and the VIF (which I'm pretty sure was built for AV but also would have pre-dated ULA) were also state funded, The Man paying for a vertical SX facility is further evidence of something closer to parity rather than favoritism.

Sorry.. which article?

The one you responded to. ;)

Also worth noting that contract awarded 4 launches to SX and 3 to ULA. So, not really any evidence of incumbent favoritism there...
 
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The total cost for NASA to launch the Roman telescope is approximately $255 million, which includes the launch service and other mission related costs. The telescope’s mission currently is targeted to launch in October 2026, as specified in the contract, on a Falcon Heavy rocket
That is over four years from now. Elon has said in the past that he wants Starship to make Falcon obsolete, effectively retiring the vehicle.

I think it more than likely that the Roman telescope will launch with a Starship.
 
I think it more than likely that the Roman telescope will launch with a Starship.

All but 0% chance it goes on starship. This is another L2 mission (like Webb) that would need a Starship refueling (and potentially even expending a Starship?), and there's no chance that's getting bought into by this kind of mission until there's significant heritage on the concept years before the planned launch. There's a ton of conservative launcher unique design that goes into these kinds of space vehicles, and re-doing that design simply isn't going to happen unless there's something absolutely catastrophic on the Falcon program...and then NASA would likely try to stuff the thing on an Ariane 6 or Vulcan (Roman is a bit smaller than Webb, so its an easier lift) since those 5m launchers have similar-ish launch environments.

There's also no upside to the mission in switching launchers and especially within the same company. While Heavy obviously doesn't have quite the statistical foundation as Falcon, its all but a known quantity when it comes to reliability and Starship...simply isn't yet. That's just the way the legacy space industry goes about planning missions. Buy the one that works, fly on the one you buy--even if at the point when you fly there's something better.

The Falcon program is going to have a long tail on it from these kinds of missions.
 
Given that there are not many missions today that need a Falcon Heavy, I am wondering how many commercial launches need Starship, beyond the moon and mars mission?

Well, lots of Starlink missions! That was the entire point, actually, of Starlink. Elon was a bit depressed in the days of the BFR and Interplanetary Transport Ship (ITS) when they were trying to build it using carbon fiber on a huge mandrill. He was searching for a funding mechanism for what eventually became Starship. Like you, he didn't see a market for such a huge ship so he ... made his own market. By coming up with a brand new product that would a) be profitable (Starlink) and b) require lots and lots of lift, he assured success for development of Starship. Indeed, before anyone even really knew about Starlink, Elon got Google to invest $1B into SpaceX, and it was on the strength of the Starlink business plan that he was able to get that investment.

It was during one of Elon's ITS/BFR updates that he cryptically said he had figured out a way to fund Starship, giving no elaboration. Starlink was soon announced thereafter.

Now that Starship is soon going to be a reality, you can bet your NASA funding budget that new mission planners are salivating at the huge amount of mass and volume it can loft, and at the cheap prices. It takes a while to design new space missions, but rest assured that while Starship will be mostly launching Starlink missions in the next few years, they'll start to accumulate a backlog once it is proven and the price sheet comes out. That's also the reason they've been aggressively getting into the Falcon 9 rideshare mission business - I expect a lot of rideshares on Starship initially.

By the way, creating your own market for something you want to build is genius, but it has happened in the past before. It takes balls and vision though to pull it off.
 
Given that there are not many missions today that need a Falcon Heavy, I am wondering how many commercial launches need Starship, beyond the moon and mars mission?

Nothing is currently built around starship (other than Starlink, obviously), and you can bet there won't be many single-sat payloads the near future. Once starship is operational you'll see more appetite commercial entities to build a bigger GEO (or whatever) than the current 5m class of launchers can lift, but its really hard right now for someone to pin their business model on the success of a rocket development program. More likely for those kinds of missions, Starship will be considered a cost opportunity, not a volume opportunity.

NASA and definitely defense-type entities will be even farther behind for science/exploration missions, as their acquisition process is even more conservative.

Commercial entities with constellation aspirations will be the first to lean into Starship, as there's of course potential for a lot of cost and mass-rate upside from Starship, but we're still years away from that. But...there's also the big problem with commercial constellations...there's only one and a half out there to-date (and none on the horizon for years)...and one of those constellations is in-house. And the pretender constellations that are out there booking are buying up the 5m class (+NG). For instance, not sure it came through this forum, but Oneweb signed up with Relativity (who haven't launched anything, let alone a big stick) a few weeks ago.

Anyway, from a hucking-things-into-space perspective, I'd guess 2026-2028 is when we really start to see the shift away from 5m vehicles (including Falcon) to Starship, Obviously, contracts will come much sooner than that. ...though that's when we'll really start to see things like Neutron and Terran-R and New Glenn really hit their stride, and maybe even some of the smaller players like Firefly and ABL will have compelling vehicles also.
 
Now that Starship is soon going to be a reality, you can bet your NASA funding budget that new mission planners are salivating at the huge amount of mass and volume it can loft, and at the cheap prices. It takes a while to design new space missions, but rest assured that while Starship will be mostly launching Starlink missions in the next few years, they'll start to accumulate a backlog once it is proven and the price sheet comes out.
Agreed, and not just NASA. Commercial space station operators. Earth point-to-point suborbital flights.
 
SpeceX could work with Arianespace to replace all Soyuz operations from French Guiana. Adapt the Guiana launch pad for Falcon 9 operations.
Given that SpaceX likely has as much business as it can handle in the near term, and that the F9 is planned to be replaced by Starship as soon as possible, there seems no need to invest in creating another F9 launch site, one that would require ocean transport.
 
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