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[Speculation] Model 3 0.237 kwh/mile!
- Thread starter Swampgator
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- Model 3
The model 3 spec page says 215 miles of range. You are in disagreement with Tesla.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Well, we know for almost a certainty that Model 3 is less than 2,34m², because that's the Model S's frontal area, and Model 3 has been stated to be smaller
So we have a target drag coefficient of ~87% of Ioniq's, and a frontal area "less than 89% of Ioniq's", meaning "less than 78% as much aero drag". And since aero dominates at high speeds....Yeah, Model 3 is going to seriously sip energy on the highway
If Ioniq is rated at 250 Wh/mi pack-to-wheels... Model 3 having a 237Wh/mi wall-to-wheels may actually be right. Wow-diddly-wow.
1-hour 43A CHAdeMO charges to 80% on a 50kWh-usable pack. With our 90kph (56mph) speed limit extending a 215+mi range to a 315+mi range, that's 4,5+ hours of driving per 1 of charging. I'll actually be able to travel around my supercharger-devoid country without having to wait ages!
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No + on my spec page. I check it daily for the HUD announcement. I have an unambiguous "Our most affordable car yet, Model 3 achieves 215 miles of range per charge while starting at only $35,000 before incentives."
If I'm Tesla I'm holding the base car at 215 and selling the battery upgrade. The car is already underpriced at $35K (assuming decent interior materials).
If I'm Tesla I'm holding the base car at 215 and selling the battery upgrade. The car is already underpriced at $35K (assuming decent interior materials).
JeffK
Well-Known Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
YepWell, we know for almost a certainty that Model 3 is less than 2,34m², because that's the Model S's frontal area, and Model 3 has been stated to be smaller
Yeah, Model 3 is going to seriously sip energy on the highway
If Ioniq is rated at 250 Wh/mi pack-to-wheels... Model 3 having a 237Wh/mi wall-to-wheels may actually be right. Wow-diddly-wow.
I keep making stupid mistakes. The Model 3 advantage is 17 Wh/km when looking at aero and mass, so I agree: 237 Wh/mile wall to wheel and presuming 15% charging losses, close to 5 miles a kWh from the battery. Either the Model 3 range is going to be 250+ miles or the battery is way less than 50 kWh.
Gorrammit.... I'm now so excited, if today were Friday, I'd be saying "forget it" to sleep and staying up to the start of the delivery event broadcast at 4 AM my time
Re, the "+" on the "215+ miles":
Elon Musk on Twitter
Re, the "+" on the "215+ miles":
Elon Musk on Twitter
The 215 was quoted before they even put the car together, of course it's a minimum.
I am now convinced that the base version will have a 50 kWh battery. I remember early on that Tesla was targeting a 20% improvement in efficiency versus the model S. He was probably trying to achieve the same range as the model S 60.
I know people are hoping for a base version at 60 KWh, but Tesla is already pulling off a miracle with a $35k Model 3. This car is in no way comparable to a Bolt. A 250 mile range $35,000 model three is literally too good to be true.
I also hazard a guess that there will be 50, 60 & 75 kWh versions.
I know people are hoping for a base version at 60 KWh, but Tesla is already pulling off a miracle with a $35k Model 3. This car is in no way comparable to a Bolt. A 250 mile range $35,000 model three is literally too good to be true.
I also hazard a guess that there will be 50, 60 & 75 kWh versions.
powertoold
Active Member
powertoold
Active Member
50kWh would be 210 miles, if all 50kWh were usable. There's no way Elon would do that.
Having 3 battery configurations would be too complicated, 55, 60, and 75? More like 60 and 75.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
This page has highway EPA efficiency for the Ioniq at 122 MPGe, so 3.66 miles a kWh from the wall and about 4.3 miles a kWh from the battery. This seems consistent with the EPA highway range of 110 miles on a 28 kwh nominal battery and around 25.5 kWh usable.Gorrammit.... I'm now so excited, if today were Friday, I'd be saying "forget it" to sleep and staying up to the start of the delivery event broadcast at 4 AM my time
Re, the "+" on the "215+ miles":
Elon Musk on Twitter
Backtracking, then:
4.3 miles a kWh is 232 Wh/mile for Ioniq on the EPA highway cycle
If the Model 3 uses 28 Wh/mile less then 204 Wh/mile or 4.9 miles a kWh from the battery. If we get 50 kWh usable then 245 miles range on the highway. I say too good to be true, but I'll wet my pants if true. More reasonable for the Tesla I guess would be 52 kWh nominal, 48 kWh usable for a highway range of 235 miles.
In your case, the miles/min charge rate is looking good, even for lousy old Chademo at 40 kW -- about 3.3 miles a minute
Indeed. For many reasons, I would *much* rather see a 50kWh Model 3 with 215+mi range than a 60kWh with 215+mi range.
1) More range per minute charging from a given power source
2) Less to pay for power per distance travelled
3) Lower environmental impact, both in production and operation
4) More capability to upgrade a Model 3 to longer ranges (aka, 50->75 = 50% more energy; 60-75 = 25% more energy)
5) Lighter vehicle (numerous benefits)
The list of downsides is much shorter. Predominantly that it means that your vehicle is more sensitive to inclement conditions that can hurt its drag or rolling resistance (driving through snow, snow/ice accumulation messing up your aero, etc). One would add parasitic loads to the list of disadvantages (smaller pack = less ability to tolerate them), except for the fact that a smaller vehicle = less surface area = slower heat / cooling losses.
Except for that by all signs the page that this figure comes from is listing wall to wheels numbers, not pack to wheels.
The comparable S and X numbers are very clearly wall to wheels, and the data is being used in code to calculate how much you have to pay to charge the vehicle.That's not to say that the page is correct or represents some final figure. But if we're going to use this number, we should be clear on how the page is using it.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
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