Garlan Garner
Banned
I don't mind paying for something - Just not 5 times the price of what I pay for at home.
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[Speculation] Model 3 0.237 kwh/mile!
- Thread starter Swampgator
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- Model 3
I don't mind paying for something - Just not 5 times the price of what I pay for at home.
$0.04? For energy and transfer? That is extremely cheap when compared to what I'm used to paying for it, 0.06€ + 0.05€.
So where's the capital costs for building the 6-figure charging stations supposed to come from, then? Because that's what you're really paying for - their amortization.
Tesla isn't doing this for fun, they want an EV-based world to be sustainable, and that means profitable, not running at a loss. And - for the record - do you actually pay 4 cents per kWh for electricity? Home rates? Are you sure about that? All line fees included?
$0,20/kWh for a vehicle that gets 344Wh/mi wall-to-wheels (S) is under 7 cents per mile - about the same as a 33mpg car at current US gas prices ($2,30/gal). For a vehicle getting 237Wh/mi (Model 3), that's under 5 cents per mile, and equivalent to a 49mpg car. So you're charging at the cost of an efficient gasoline car while on road trips, but vastly cheaper when at home (the majority of a typical person's charging), as well as with low cost or free destination charging. And this comparison is for a period of relatively low gasoline prices, in a country with cheap gas. Where I am, gas is nearly $8 per gallon!
A Model S here would supercharge at a price equivalence of 113mpg, while a Model 3 would be 165mpg!
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$0.2/kWh is actually pretty cheap compared to other fast charging. Here, electricity is about $0.1/kWh at home, while you pay $0.3/minute for 50 kW CHAdeMO. Even assuming you manage to utilize it fully, that's $0.36/kWh, but usually a small EV can only utilize it like 50% on average over a charging session, which means it's closer to $0.7/kWh. And with a cold battery, it can be much worse.
The charging companies *really* don't want you to think they're selling electricity. They would like it if you think of them as selling mobility.
The charging companies *really* don't want you to think they're selling electricity. They would like it if you think of them as selling mobility.
Legitimate curiousity here. What do you charge at at home. For us it is just under 11 cents per kilowatt hour. So in this case an extra cent using a supercharger would just make it a LOT faster. Your alternative is charging at home. And the way I understand it, superchargers are not supposed to be used in lieu of home charging but rather for road trips. Seems to me it would encourage home charging if the charging cost was a little higher at superchargers. Just trying to wrap my head around the frame of mind here and if this is common.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Well.. at night here in Chicago our KWH gets down to $.01 per KWH. ( yep .... one cent ).
Supercharging has been opened up for local charging per tesla as many apartment dwellers have no other option.
Sir Guacamolaf
The good kind of fat
Reciprocity
Active Member
Where in Chicago. I have Comed and delivery costs dont go below 5-6c/KWh. I average 10.6c/KWh for supply + delivery and get down to about 8c sometimes over night without solar. Adding solar as soon as they can do the install. Permits are approved.
What is your actual, entire monthly power bill, versus how many kilowatt hours you use (assuming you have no solar panels)? There's no way you pay just 4 cents, let alone 1, for residential power and that that's all fees included.
Average Energy Prices, Chicago-Gary-Kenosha — June 2017 : Midwest Information Office : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Now I'm curious, doing a bit of math. What is the power that an average supercharger at a "busy" station might be delivering over the course of a day? Maybe 20kW, accounting for night, daytime periods where it's not completely full, charge taper, etc? So it'd be averaging $4/h, $96/d, or $35k per year as revenue. They're buying power wholesale, but also a lot of daytime and in a rather on/off / grid stressful manner, so let's say half of that revenue goes to power and maintenance. So $17,5k per year. A supercharger V2 is said to be $100-175k per site. Let's say $140k. That's an 8 year payback time.
So no, there's no sign that Tesla is raking the money in on these superchargers.
So no, there's no sign that Tesla is raking the money in on these superchargers.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I'm on ComEd's RTTP ( real time pricing) program even though I have Solar. Look where my Cursor is at 1AM. Its 1 cents per KWH. You should get on the RTTP program. Its free for everyone. Otherwise you will be charged the ALL day average + $.03 per KWH.
You should get on the RTTP program. Its free for everyone. Otherwise you will be charged the ALL day average + $.03 per KWH.
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Garlan Garner
Banned
@RobertF and @insaneoctane What are your disagreements about.
Its always strange when people disagree with you - with no explanations.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. Let's look at the Ioniq:
28 kWh / 124 mi EPA = 0.225 kWh / mile on average.
You think 0.237 for a heavier but more aerodynamic car is hard to believe?
Yes, because we have old nuclear plants that can't be throttled. Tesla is not going to set their pricing policy based on old nuclear.
Tesla must be paying some very high peak rates on some days in some areas. As an all in cost, including a share of the equipment expense, I could see 20 cents being their average cost per kWh.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Average cost - yes, but not in Chicago. Chicago is on the low end of electricity costs.
People in California and Hawaii would love 20 cents per kWh, but not Chicago.
I think Tesla will need to do variable pricing eventually, but probably not at the start. Apartment dwellers in LA need to be discourage from charging at 9pm on a hot day.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Depends if they are giving Tesla an industrial or commercial rate. Here in the Midwest that could be anywhere from 3 - 7 cents per kWh.
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