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Speculation - New charging plug?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by sandpiper, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    This thought is a little out there. It's becoming apparent that in the VHS/Betamax race between the Tesla charging standard and the SAE charging standard, the Tesla one will eventually lose - despite the fact that it's technically much better (like Betamax).

    There are a lot of new SAE charging stations being built. I wonder if Tesla has considered going to SAE for the Model 3? Yes they can make an SAE to Tesla adapter, but this business of adapters is clunky and clearly a short term accommodation. Eventually all cars will have to talk to all chargers without adapters.
     
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  2. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    Why do they need to do that? I love the idea of super chargers and adapters, it's the best of both worlds. If I can get to a supercharger I have no problem, if I have to go to a non supercharger I whip out an adapter and no problem. I'm quite certain they will also make an SAE adapter since they are on the board for the standard, it's just not plentiful enough yet for Tesla to commit the resources to creating another adapter. This is not beta/vhs because Tesla is making there money upfront selling the cars, SC's are not a profit center for them.
     
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  3. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    A far better comparison would be Apple's lighting connector to USB. And just like in that comparison Tesla's standard is very likely to stick around.

    Tesla's in general exist in their own ecosystem. I've had my car for three years and have never used a non-Tesla plug. The third party chargers are almost entirely substantially inferior to Tesla's, and Tesla's are just as prolific.
     
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  4. ratsbew

    ratsbew Member

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    Tesla's connector is so far superior in nearly every way. You want the Model 3 to be compatible with the Supercharger network without having to use an adapter every time.

    One thing I could is a new tesla connector that that is backward compatible with the current connector; think bigger diameter with the old plug in the center and new pins around the periphery.
     
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  5. rypalmer

    rypalmer Member

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    If they can supply a passive SAE Combo adaptor, there's no issue.

    Otherwise I agree they should adopt a standard and get it over with. The longer they delay this the harder it will be for them with more cars and EVSE in the field.
     
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  6. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #6 sandpiper, Mar 31, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
    This is my thought. as well From what I understand a passive SAE adapter is not possible. It would have to be more like the Chademo kludge adapter that they're selling; nobody wants that.

    It wouldn't be a big deal to retrofit the existing SCs with the SAE frankenplug. And then they could offer an adapter for the legacy Tesla owners that goes from SAE to legacy Tesla.

    Long term there can only be one HP DC standard. It would help Tesla and the EV industry to standardize sooner rather than later. The Tesla plug is a far far better product. But there comes a time when you know that the battle is lost. I think we're there.
     
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  7. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    It will still be years before SAE plugs are ubiquitous enough to be useful. In the meantime Tesla will continue with its own plug and probably release an SAE adapter. Maybe in 5 years we'll see a new Tesla model that has both an SAE and a Tesla inlet port. Maybe.
     
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  8. eSpiritIV

    eSpiritIV Member

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    For those of you who have a tesla already, what do you use for your home charger? just a NEMA 14-50 outlet, or buy the Tesla Wall Connector? If the latter, what amp setting did you set it up to use it for?
     
  9. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Tesla wall connector, 80 amp. It's nice to be able to charge-up fairly quickly if you're planning a long drive in the evening.
     
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  10. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    That's not so. The SAE/Chademo combo units are already outnumbering superchargers in Ontario Canada, and they're often located in places where there are no reachable superchargers.

    With other EV makers pushing bigger batteries, we can expect to see more and more of this.
     
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  11. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    14-50, never had a need for more.

    It seems highly unlikely that there will end up being only one HP DC standard. Besides which, with the current rate at which Tesla is planning on building cars it seems likely that in a year or two the vast majority of cars that can take advantage of 100kW+ charging will be Tesla's.
     
  12. rypalmer

    rypalmer Member

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    Same in Quebec, by a long shot. Nobody except perhaps Nissan dealers are installing CHAdeMO stations that don't also have Combo plugs.
     
  13. timk225

    timk225 Member

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    What is the SAE plug? Isn't that the J1772 standard that Tesla already gives you an adapter for?

    There's an NRG ev-go charging station at a Dunkin Donuts near me in Pittsburgh that has that and Chademo plugs, I thought I could just connect up to it with thew J1772 adapter.

    Pittsburgh seriously needs a few new Superchargers placed around the city, there's currently only one SC place 20 miles north of town.

    In the field of EV chargers, there Tesla, then.... all the rest. THEY need to all change, not us.
     
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  14. Petra

    Petra Member

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    By SAE plug, they're referring to the CCS connector. As for using CHAdeMO with a Tesla, you need the separate CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter ($450). Tesla does not currently have a CCS to Tesla plug adapter.
     
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  15. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Sure... but it won't happen - for sure. If it were in the cards it would have happened by now. This is one of those many cases where the superior solution will lose to the inferior for all of the wrong reasons: politics, marketing, ego, etc. If you go 5 years into the future there will be a LOT more SAE stations out there.

    Tesla will have to switch at some point; it's better to do it sooner rather than later. And the Model 3 introduction is probably a good point to do so.
     
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  16. FlyF4

    FlyF4 Member

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    That's my wishful thinking too, yet I was saying the same thing 30 years ago about those little electronic "wall-warts" that connect to practically every type of electronic device these days. I was wrong. I would have thought by now that device companies would have standardized on a voltage and plug type, yet it has gotten worse. There are at least 30 different combinations of voltage, amperage, plug, and size of warts.
     
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  17. FlyF4

    FlyF4 Member

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    I use a wall charger and set for 48 amp charging with a 60 amp breaker because that it the largest amperage I can use without making a costly service upgrade. I would guess that most home owners won't have the capability to put in the full 100 amp breakers and likely charge at a lower rate, which is still plenty good for home use.
     
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  18. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #18 sandpiper, Mar 31, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
    It's a different situation I think. These little wall warts are all pretty cheap and most devices ship with one in the box.

    This business of running around with a box of adapters & cables in the trunk is fine for EV enthusiasts. But it won't work for the wider population. It will be one more headache that slows adoption.

    Tesla gains a tremendous advantage, right now, out of the SC network. And it's made sense for them to keep a proprietary standard. But they're going to have a heck of a time keeping the lines at SCs reasonable with half a million 3s out there. At a certain point, when SAE chargers outnumber SCs by a substantial margin, the advantage will become a disadvantage. People will want to charge at ANY charger, without having to drag out a $500 clunky adapter.

    At that point, they should swap out the plugs on the SCs. And they should start letting other manufacturers hookup to them - at a cost of course. If they want they can charge a higher rate for non-Tesla vehicles.
     
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  19. FlyF4

    FlyF4 Member

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    Yup, I don't disagree with that line of thinking. I'm just betting that an standardized adoption will be slow. ;)
     
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  20. strider

    strider Active Member

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    I don't think that's a good comparison. Apple has already moved to USB-C for their laptops - I think phones will follow.
    I agree with this.
    14-50 at home. Have never needed to charge faster.
     
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