SammichLover
Banned
Oh, and I'm not sure how the new Roadster isn't going to do just as well on smiles per mile as the old one.
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Sports car enthusiast opinions wanted
- Thread starter Filteq
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One thought on snow driving, particularly performance snow driving. This winter there were some posts on this forum (and others) from dual motor drivers that were alarmed that their M3s 'fishtailed' a bit in the snow. They suggested that Tesla should route more power to the front wheels to minimize this tendency, and make them handle more like the font wheel drive cars that they were used to. Those of you East of the Mississippi likely heard my scream "Nooooooo" as I was reading it.
But it got me thinking. The Subaru WRX STI has a knob on the center console that allows you to adjust how much torque is going to the rear versus the front of the car through an electronic center differential. This is the major difference between the regular WRX and the STI version. You pay a $10K premium for it (and sexier wheels and brakes). But the differential is the real jewel.
Making a mechanical device that can divide up 300 horsepower on the fly is tough, and expensive. However, if you doing a calculation to change how many electrons the computer is allow to flow through two motor drivers, that is not difficult at all. The car already divides the torque up now on a set basis, driver input could change this setting, with reasonable bounds. Tesla could offer an adjustable center differential using software only. A little knob or slider on the touch screen is all it would take. Maybe even have a mode where a steering wheel roller is the input (in lieu of setting the cruise control speed, perhaps). Presto, you can change your front/rear power balance. How cool would that be! Its just software. Tesla engineers, if you are reading this and want a beta vehicle, you know how to find me!
But it got me thinking. The Subaru WRX STI has a knob on the center console that allows you to adjust how much torque is going to the rear versus the front of the car through an electronic center differential. This is the major difference between the regular WRX and the STI version. You pay a $10K premium for it (and sexier wheels and brakes). But the differential is the real jewel.
Making a mechanical device that can divide up 300 horsepower on the fly is tough, and expensive. However, if you doing a calculation to change how many electrons the computer is allow to flow through two motor drivers, that is not difficult at all. The car already divides the torque up now on a set basis, driver input could change this setting, with reasonable bounds. Tesla could offer an adjustable center differential using software only. A little knob or slider on the touch screen is all it would take. Maybe even have a mode where a steering wheel roller is the input (in lieu of setting the cruise control speed, perhaps). Presto, you can change your front/rear power balance. How cool would that be! Its just software. Tesla engineers, if you are reading this and want a beta vehicle, you know how to find me!
I just came from an M235i, which is essentially a sports coupe of great capability and fantastic design with an incredible, sonorous engine. I do not miss it.
Not having a transmission is one of the best things about the car. Seamless power at any speed without delay.
I don't really miss the sound because the silence is so relaxing.
No on a weekend car. This can do everything. I do sometimes wish that I had an older proper driver's car in the garage to tinker with, but the Model 3 would make it feel ancient and I'm tired of gasoline and maintenance.
I have zero regrets. I was terrified about quality and the different lifestyle of electric, but I never have to go to the gas station, there's vastly less to go wrong mechanically, and the driving experience is exhilarating.
Heh. That's what I said in 2010ish when considering the original Roadster at 98k+6k.
And then I spent more than that on an S, and then another S, and then another S. All of which cost more than that Roadster would have.
SammichLover
Banned
+++
Damn straight!
A little 'danger', having something you need to work to control, is very key to having a "driver's car".This is largely speculation, since the Model 3's powertrain behavior is so opaque to those outside Tesla, but here it goes;
Yes, the STI is a marvel in a lot of ways because of what it was doing. That's pretty darn amazing engineering, for the reason you give. What I suspect an implication is of the granularity of control the Model 3's drivetrain has is that a knob like that sort of loses its meaning, since you can have an extremely complex behavior mapped of how the power is divided. So instead of a knob turning the bias you're probably a lot better off having mode settings that are more goal based.
That would be a pretty cool feature to have, and to some extent Track Mode is like this. Really I think it belongs in a setting within Track Mode. And perhaps in time this will be developed, although Tesla has a lot of other fish to fry now. For example if you've seen the reports on here from Germany about some roughness in the T/C S/C at 200kph+, that's a pretty important thing to get polished.
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CarlK
Active Member
Not sure what are you talking about. Tesla has two independent electronically controlled power sources (motors) to control front and rear axle output from sensor feedbacks instantaneously. It's gazillion times better setup than center differentials or transfer boxes on any ICE cars.
This is how Tesla could beat a top of line snowmobile on a icy lake bed. Did a STI even dare to think racing a snowmobile?
artsci
Sponsor
I had a Honda S2000 for ten years which I tracked. It revved to 9,000 rpm, had a 6 speed gear box, free flow exhaust and was set up to handle to the max. When I revved the engine to the max thought all the gears it screamed. At first I loved the noise but I got so tired of it that I started wearing ear plugs on long trips. And then I thought the engine sounds represented nothing more than something I’ve learned to despise: the car pouring poisons into the atmosphere of the only planet we have. Those poisons are endangering plant and animal species all over the world, including us.
The Model 3 is a whole different story. It’s much faster, handles much better, and does it all with quiet no-emissions grace. And it’s always in the correct gear (none) when you get on it. I don’t give a damn about German luxury interiors — it’s all phony Thorsten Veblen stuff IMHO. The Model 3 will set new future standards for cars. Quiet performance, modest but high tech interiors, and effortless handling will become much more appreciated values,
I wouldn’t trade my Model S or Model 3 for any other car in the world.
Oh, forgot to mention, my first two cars were E-type Jags. The stories I could tell about those are not worth repeating here
The Model 3 is a whole different story. It’s much faster, handles much better, and does it all with quiet no-emissions grace. And it’s always in the correct gear (none) when you get on it. I don’t give a damn about German luxury interiors — it’s all phony Thorsten Veblen stuff IMHO. The Model 3 will set new future standards for cars. Quiet performance, modest but high tech interiors, and effortless handling will become much more appreciated values,
I wouldn’t trade my Model S or Model 3 for any other car in the world.
Oh, forgot to mention, my first two cars were E-type Jags. The stories I could tell about those are not worth repeating here
I am a "car guy" .... wasted my youth building and "endlessly" tuning them .... endlessly !
I am a mechanical engineer with over 70 patents and truly understand the ICE and electric technologies.
I am not a "green freak" and it had NO impact on my decision. I have an 8KW solar system as well but it's to fight back against SDG&E here in San Diego ($.50/WKH ...CRAZY).
I Purchased a Model 3 a year ago (long range, all options, singe motor). I have 22,000 miles on it.
Also Have a M5 V10 2008 with 225,000 miles... Troy Jeup stroker 700 HP and lots of mods.... including the Eisenmann (loud) exhaust.
The answer to your question is: I DON'T MISS ANY OF THE OLD ICE STUFF.... AT ALL.
Everything to do with ICE is a compromise.... fuel management, cam timing, stupid torque curve, emissions crap, shift lag, really ineffective traction control.... no way in hell can an ICE 700 HP v10 be tamed in time to be effective (can show you a guard rail to prove it)!
The Tesla traction control is superb as the electric motor can almost instantly cut torque. Thank you Elan for NOT providing an override.
The biggest surprise for me in the model 3 was the handling. Tight crisp, low center of gravity awesome steering (in sport mode). AND it's a heavy car !!
I will never go back, never.
BTW.... I need to also weigh in on one more VERY important issue: TESLA SERVICE IS THE WORST BY FAR IN MY 5O+ YEARS OF DRIVING.... TERRIBLE.... AND .... Please, Please PURCHASE AN AFTERMARKET SPARE WHEEL AND TOOLS.... IN A 3 MONTH PERIOD I HAD TWO FLATS AND WAITED FOR HOURS TO BE TOWED....IN THE DARK.... AFTER MIDNIGHT ... IN THE RAIN... and Discount tire does not stock this tire.... hummmm (from my point of view the promise that Tesla will lend you a spare wheel is 100% BS !)
Hope this helps and that I can report that Tesla service improves..... someday.
Best wishes
I am a mechanical engineer with over 70 patents and truly understand the ICE and electric technologies.
I am not a "green freak" and it had NO impact on my decision. I have an 8KW solar system as well but it's to fight back against SDG&E here in San Diego ($.50/WKH ...CRAZY).
I Purchased a Model 3 a year ago (long range, all options, singe motor). I have 22,000 miles on it.
Also Have a M5 V10 2008 with 225,000 miles... Troy Jeup stroker 700 HP and lots of mods.... including the Eisenmann (loud) exhaust.
The answer to your question is: I DON'T MISS ANY OF THE OLD ICE STUFF.... AT ALL.
Everything to do with ICE is a compromise.... fuel management, cam timing, stupid torque curve, emissions crap, shift lag, really ineffective traction control.... no way in hell can an ICE 700 HP v10 be tamed in time to be effective (can show you a guard rail to prove it)!
The Tesla traction control is superb as the electric motor can almost instantly cut torque. Thank you Elan for NOT providing an override.
The biggest surprise for me in the model 3 was the handling. Tight crisp, low center of gravity awesome steering (in sport mode). AND it's a heavy car !!
I will never go back, never.
BTW.... I need to also weigh in on one more VERY important issue: TESLA SERVICE IS THE WORST BY FAR IN MY 5O+ YEARS OF DRIVING.... TERRIBLE.... AND .... Please, Please PURCHASE AN AFTERMARKET SPARE WHEEL AND TOOLS.... IN A 3 MONTH PERIOD I HAD TWO FLATS AND WAITED FOR HOURS TO BE TOWED....IN THE DARK.... AFTER MIDNIGHT ... IN THE RAIN... and Discount tire does not stock this tire.... hummmm (from my point of view the promise that Tesla will lend you a spare wheel is 100% BS !)
Hope this helps and that I can report that Tesla service improves..... someday.
Best wishes
When people stare at the old guy in his gasping ICE dinosaur, it isn't awe. It's pitty. It's like the old drunk guy farting and wheezing at a bar who thinks his jokes are funny.
Once you get a P3D, you see what real power feels like. There are only 12 production cars faster, 2 are Tesla's. True pin you in your seat power. You will have to keep it in Chill mode or you will be at 100 in a blink.
Wait until you feel the cornering in Track mode.
In 6 months I have woken up to a new car 13 times. One morning, the top end went up 7 mph. Others mornings it was Sentry Mode, Dog mode, Track Mode, Navigate on Auto, Summon, and better self driving every time.
That old guy with all of his belching, farting, and wheezing knows exactly what he will wake up to in the morning: blood shot eyes, bad breath and a fading car getting a little more tired every day
Every couple weeks a Tesla owner wakes up to a new car.
Who do you want to be?
Once you get a P3D, you see what real power feels like. There are only 12 production cars faster, 2 are Tesla's. True pin you in your seat power. You will have to keep it in Chill mode or you will be at 100 in a blink.
Wait until you feel the cornering in Track mode.
In 6 months I have woken up to a new car 13 times. One morning, the top end went up 7 mph. Others mornings it was Sentry Mode, Dog mode, Track Mode, Navigate on Auto, Summon, and better self driving every time.
That old guy with all of his belching, farting, and wheezing knows exactly what he will wake up to in the morning: blood shot eyes, bad breath and a fading car getting a little more tired every day
Every couple weeks a Tesla owner wakes up to a new car.
Who do you want to be?
I miss the hands on experience of the engine starter crank. Lubricating the drive chain with my trusty oil can is a pleasure I miss. I loved the smell of the lamp oil for the headlights. Give me my goggles any day instead of that windscreen that gets dirty. These new tires with the air in them go flat. I now have to buy oil for my other machines instead of using it from the pan under my car. I hate the future.
We have had our Model 3 Performance for three months. We wanted a sports car that would replace the GTO's and Mustangs we had in the past. Those were more straight line acceleration than flat out sports car. The Model 3 cornering and handling is the best we have ever owned. The acceleration is more like a roller coaster than a car.
I do not really miss shifting, it was fun to see how fast you could do it with an ICE car, but that got old quickly in traffic.
I do not miss the sound. We loved how our ICE cars sounded, but now it all seems silly. I actually find loud cars annoying now, especially when they need to warm them up early in the day. I will pull up to a red light and roll the window down and make vroom-vroom sounds verbally to indicate either I want to race, or I am mentally unstable. That usually makes the competition laugh until the light turns green and they lose by a wide margin.
I recommend a truck for a weekend car that can tow a boat or other toys and haul enormous stuff home from Costco. I usually just leave the boat and trailer attached, because I don't want to drive it otherwise.
I regret not buying the Tesla M3P sooner, so we would have gotten a larger tax break. I regret they don't have an electric pickup available yet.
I not will consider purchasing another ICE vehicle again. I may consider a battery electric vehicle from another manufacturer, but it will have to beat what Tesla is selling. Since none of the competitors have anything that beats a 2012 Tesla yet, I'm not holding my breathe.
Dude, I own a performance model 3 and a dragy. I have a street right next to me where I can go as fast as I want, whenever I want.
Needless to say I've slammed the accelerater from many different starting mphs. 30 mph is the sweet spot. It pulls the most Gs at the quickest rate. So yes, pushing the pedal to the floor at 30 mph is way different than at 60 mph. 60+ isn't bad if you're comparing it to normal cars, but if you compare it to traditional sports cars in its price range then it is nothing to talk about. A challenger or mustang is going to beat you at highway speeds.
I couldn't give a *sugar* about who's beating who above 60 mph on a track. If we are using that as a marker then I have no comment.
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chickensworth
Member
no- manual transmission now feels like a wedge between me and the car... the lack of transmission in the Tesla connects me more directly to the drive system.
no- i used the sound to gauge where in the power band I was... if i was in the proper gear at the proper speed etc... now, that's not part of the equation... again, i feel more directly tied to the drive system of the car so the noise is just feels old fashioned.
maybe- i kept my ///M coupe... but i only drive it so the battery doesn't go dead and to circulate the fluids... it's becoming more a pain in the *ss than a pleasure to drive.
No regrets about going electric... only regret is the P3D looks exactly like every other model 3. Wish it was a bit more special in the looks dept... but i still love it.
CarlK
Active Member
This should settle the higher speed acceleration argument. Not just 0-60 but Model 3 absolutely killed the BMW 0-100, 45-65 and 1/4 mile. I knew what it will do, I've see enough drag videos to know that, but this still amazes me.
Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Compact Luxury Sedan Comparison - MotorTrend
Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 330i vs. Genesis G70 Compact Luxury Sedan Comparison - MotorTrend
Brando
Active Member
Lexus LC 500 vs Model 3P part 1 of 2 - need to find part 2 - coming soon
There Is Tesla, And Then There Are Automotive Dinosaurs | CleanTechnica
@TEG please read this entire thread - well the ones that catch your eye.
Owners of Teslas are still the very very best salesman. Please try to keep up to Tesla vehicle ramp ups.
thank you so much - and if you come to Kitsap County or Seattle perhaps you can give me a ride?
There Is Tesla, And Then There Are Automotive Dinosaurs | CleanTechnica
@TEG please read this entire thread - well the ones that catch your eye.
Owners of Teslas are still the very very best salesman. Please try to keep up to Tesla vehicle ramp ups.
thank you so much - and if you come to Kitsap County or Seattle perhaps you can give me a ride?
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